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Intelligence Squared

Intelligence Squared is the home of lively debate and deep-dive discussion. Follow Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts and enjoy four regular episodes per week taking you to the heart of the issues that matter in the company of the world’s great minds. We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be. Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2. 

And if you’d like to support our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, as well as ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today. Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

In this episode, award-winning journalist Evan Osnos joins Carl Miller to discuss the lives of the Ultrarich and themes from his new book The Haves and the Have Yachts. Together, they explore the secretive world of the ultra-wealthy, the symbolism of superyachts, and what extreme luxury reveals about inequality, power, and the future of capitalism.

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 If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

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Are the Rich Preparing for Civilisational Collapse? With Evan Osnos

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Can ancient philosophy make sense of a modern life?

In this episode, Sophie Scott-Brown speaks to academic philosopher and author Angie Hobbs about the enduring relevance of Plato and how his ideas continue to resonate in today’s world. 

Plato’s Republic remains a foundational text to Western thought. Hobbs brings us back to this key text and reminds us that throughout all of Plato’s writing the narrator is always present. Plato’s true legacy, therefore, lines in the questions he forces us to ask – about justice, leadership, love and truth. His methodology of inquiry still underpins much of modern philosophy, shaping both its ideals and its blindspots. For Hobbs, Plato is more relevant than ever, and we should view his works not as relics but tools necessary in our modern world. Regardless of whether we’re reading ancient texts or scrolling through social media, one thing remains true: no opinion is free from context. 

Angie Hobbs is the Professor of the Public Understanding of Philosophy at the University of Sheffield. She is a specialist in Ancient Greek philosophy, focusing on ethics, political theory, and moral psychology. Her new book, Why Plato Matters Now, a definitive guide to Plato and his place in the modern world. 

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

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Does Plato Still Matter Today? with Angie Hobbs

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How has the past thirty years of American politics impacted our present?

In this episode, Atossa Araxia Abrahamian speaks to journalist and author John Ganz about how the 1990s were the perfect storm that created a new America that birthed the Donald Trump Era.

Many today look back on the 1990s with a sense of nostalgia. With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the election of Bill Clinton, Americans of the 90s were ready for a “kinder, gentler America.” But as Ganz argues, the decade was far more turbulent than it seemed. Beneath the surface ran the aftershocks of Reagan-era economics, the rise of anti-establishment rhetoric and a hunger for strongman-style leadership. In retrospect, the decade was a precursor to today’s fractured political landscape. Looking to the present, Ganz reminds us that while history may be shaped by deep structures, it’s just as often steered by chaos and chance. Whether that’s a warning – or a window of opportunity – is up to us. 

John Ganz is the author of the widely acclaimed Unpopular Front newsletter for Substack and writes a monthly column for the Nation. His work has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, New Republic, New Statesman and other publications. Today we’re discussing his new book, When The Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracies, and the Origins of Trumpism, an analysis of the tumult of the early 1990s and the rise of a new America that birthed the Donald Trump Era. 

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If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

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Did the Road to Trump Start in the 90’s? with John Ganz

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How did the most powerful force in history begin with a faint smudge on a photographic plate?

In this episode, Adam McCauley speaks to physicist and award-winning science writer Frank Close about his new history of the development of nuclear power and the extraordinary minds behind it.

Beginning with Henri Becquerel’s accidental discovery in 1896 Paris, Close explores the unlikely origins of the nuclear age through the chain reaction of scientific breakthroughs and personal obsessions that set the stage for the splitting of the atom. It is the ultimate story of how pursuit of this hidden source of nuclear power, which began innocently and collaboratively, was overwhelmed by the politics of the 1930s, and following devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki opened the way to a still more terrible possibility: a thermonuclear bomb, the so-called “backyard weapon”, that could destroy all life on earth – from anywhere.

Frank Close is a Fellow of the Royal Society, Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics at Oxford University and Fellow Emeritus in Physics at Exeter College, Oxford. His new book is Destroyer of Worlds: The Deep History of the Nuclear Age: 1895-1965.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts

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- 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events 

... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

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Was the Nuclear Bomb Inevitable? With Frank Close

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‘Everyone is originally from Africa, and this book is therefore for everyone.’ – Zeinab Badawi 

Too often historians have told the history of Africa through the prism of colonialism. But what picture of the continent emerges when we do away with making the story of Africa so anchored in European colonialism? 

In July 2025 award-winning broadcaster Zeinab Badawi returned to the Intelligence Squared stage to tell a new history of Africa – in all its shades and complexities – without the stifling gaze of Europe. Drawing on the themes of her latest book, An African History of Africa: From the Dawn of Humanity to Independence, she discussed the origins of humankind, the emergence of ancient civilisations and empires, and the joys and thrills of Independence. 

Having visited more than thirty African countries to interview countless historians, anthropologists, archaeologists and local storytellers, Badawi explored a gripping new history of the oldest inhabited continent on the planet, told through the voices of Africans themselves.

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If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

- 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events 

... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

…

Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access.

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An African History of Africa, with Zeinab Badawi (Part Two)

‘Everyone is originally from Africa, and this book is therefore for everyone.’ – Zeinab Badawi 

Too often historians have told the history of Africa through the prism of colonialism. But what picture of the continent emerges when we do away with making the story of Africa so anchored in European colonialism? 

In July 2025 award-winning broadcaster Zeinab Badawi returned to the Intelligence Squared stage to tell a new history of Africa – in all its shades and complexities – without the stifling gaze of Europe. Drawing on the themes of her latest book, An African History of Africa: From the Dawn of Humanity to Independence, she discussed the origins of humankind, the emergence of ancient civilisations and empires, and the joys and thrills of Independence. 

Having visited more than thirty African countries to interview countless historians, anthropologists, archaeologists and local storytellers, Badawi explored a gripping new history of the oldest inhabited continent on the planet, told through the voices of Africans themselves.

---

This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts

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- 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events 

... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

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An African History of Africa, with Zeinab Badawi (Part One)

This is an episode of The Specialist, produced by Intelligence Squared in partnership with Sotheby's. In The Specialist, explore the significance and journey of an extraordinary work through the eyes of those that know it best.

On today's episode, the legendary Shahnameh – the Persian Book of Kings – an epic poem composed of around 50,000 rhyming couplets that recounts the mythical and historical past of the Persian Empire. Head of Islamic and Indian Art, Benedict Carter tells the tale of how one remarkable version of the Shahnameh, containing 258 pictures, was split up. And takes us through to the spectacular, record-setting sale of one of its illustrated folios. 

⁠Further details about the episode subject⁠ 

The Specialist is brought to you by Sotheby's Financial Services. SFS offers asset-based loans to unlock the value of your fine art, automobiles and other luxury collectibles. Visit ⁠sothebys.com/sfs⁠ to find out more.

To step further into the World of Sotheby’s, visit any one of our galleries, which are open to the public. Explore more at ⁠sothebys.com⁠. 
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The Specialist | The Greatest Persian Manuscript: A Story Fit For Kings, with Benedict Carter

Capitalism is driving us to disaster. Our planet is heading for a terrifying environmental cataclysm – and our economic system is responsible. The defining characteristic of capitalism is perpetual economic growth. And while it has brought us wonderful benefits, including improved health, wealth and opportunities to travel and experience the world, ever-increasing production and consumption – inherent in capitalism – are an existential threat to life on our planet. The more we produce and consume, the more energy we need – and renewables can’t keep pace. Unless we abandon capitalism now, we will inevitably continue to drive up the demand for fossil fuels. According to some scientific predictions, human civilisation could completely collapse by 2050 if we don’t take drastic action to stop climate change now. We must end capitalism before it’s too late. 

That’s the view of the anti-capitalist eco-warriors. But while it’s undeniable that capitalism has contributed to our current climate crisis, it has also proven to be history’s most effective way of solving our problems. According to capitalism’s defenders, there is almost no challenge capitalism hasn’t met. It has helped defeat disease and has lifted billions out of poverty – and there’s no reason why the dynamism of the marketplace can’t be harnessed to bring our carbon emissions down to zero. For example, until recently solar panels were impossibly expensive; now they are cheap and helping us transition away from fossil fuels. Our system of competitive, open markets gives strong incentives for the world’s brightest minds to find creative solutions to climate change. So don’t listen to the doomsayers who want to rip up our economic system. Capitalism is not the problem; it’s the solution. 

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If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

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…

Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access.

…

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Classic Debate: To Stop Climate Collapse, We Must End Capitalism

How did Apple, the world’s most valuable company and creator of the defining product of the 21st century, end up so deeply entangled with China’s authoritarian state?

In 1996, Apple was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Fast forward to 2003, and the company made a pivotal move - outsourcing production to China in search of affordable, scalable labor. That decision helped catapult Apple to unprecedented success with the iPod and iPhone. But behind the sleek devices lies a complex and consequential relationship that has reshaped global tech, economics, and power.

For this episode, Carl Miller speaks to Patrick McGee, investigative journalist and author of Apple in China. Based on over 200 interviews with former Apple engineers, executives, and supply chain insiders, McGee’s new book uncovers how Apple not only transformed Chinese manufacturing - it helped build it. And now, those same capabilities are being leveraged by Beijing in ways that may threaten the very companies that enabled them.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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Did Apple’s Rise Fuel China’s Fight for Tech Supremacy? With Patrick McGee

The death of Edward I in 1307 marked the beginning of a period of intense turmoil and change in England. The fourteenth century ushered in the beginning of the bloody Hundred Years’ War with France, an epic conflict with Scotland that would last into the sixteenth century, famine in Northern Europe and the largest human catastrophe in known history, the Black Death.

In this episode, medieval historian and writer Helen Carr speaks to Mythili Rao about this period of social, political and cultural upheaval, about how this century shaped England as we know it today.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

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... 

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How did the fourteenth century shape England? With Helen Carr

Mark Zuckerberg may have gone all-in on the concept of the metaverse recently but he's actually a bit late to the conversation. Herman Narula is CEO and co-founder of Improbable, who since 2012 have created the frameworks for building virtual worlds for clients ranging from video-game studios to governments. He joins Carl Miller, Research Director of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos, to discuss how the metaverse could change the ways we do business in future and why virtual worlds require as much careful consideration as our physical one. 
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Business Weekly: Into the Metaverse, with Herman Narula

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