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The New York Times

“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech. 

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hard Fork

This week and next, we’re bringing you recordings from our second-ever live taping in San Francisco. First, we sit down with Microsoft’s chief executive, Satya Nadella, to hear what he’s maxing out his A.I. tokens on, why he’s skeptical that software developers will ever be fully replaced, and how he’s hoping to create a new business model for Xbox. Then, Phil Mohun tells us what it has been like to watch people in the Bay Area interact with two robot dogs that wear the faces of Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. And finally, we talk with the longtime privacy defender Cindy Cohn about where things stand in the fight to protect internet users from digital surveillance by Big Tech and the government.

 Guests:

 Satya Nadella • , chairman and chief executive of Microsoft.

 Phil Mohun • , executive director of Node.

 Cindy Cohn • , former executive director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and author of “Privacy’s Defender: My Thirty-Year Fight Against Digital Surveillance.”

 Additional Reading:

 Microsoft C.E.O. Satya Nadella Says, ‘Everyone Is a Stakeholder’ in A.I.
 Node presents “Beeple: /Infinite_Loop”

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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‘Hard Fork’ Live, Part 1: Satya Nadella and Cindy Cohn

SpaceX, Anthropic and OpenAI are all racing to the public markets. We discuss what their I.P.O.s mean for the industry, charitable giving and anyone invested in an index fund. Then, more than 1,000 mathematicians signed a declaration this week raising concerns about the use of A.I. in their field. Author Kevin Hartnett joins to explain what the fuss is all about. And finally, we run through the biggest headlines of the week — including the new executive order on A.I. — in a round of HatGPT.

 

Guest:

 Kevin Hartnett • , author of 
The Proof In the Code: How a Truth Machine is Transforming Math and AI

Additional Reading:

 Anthropic Files to Go Public, Setting Stage for Huge I.P.O.
 As A.I. Makes Strides in Mathematics, Mathematicians Urge Caution
 • 
An SF Startup Is Secretly Testing Robots in Airbnbs, and Trashing Them, Lawsuit Claims
 Trump Signs Executive Order Seeking Oversight of A.I. Models 
 U.S. Is Said to Be Investigating George Santos Over Kalshi Betting
 Hackers Simply Asked Meta AI to Give Them Access to High-Profile Instagram Accounts. It Worked
 United Flight Forced to Turn Around Because of a Bluetooth Speaker Name
 ‘Survivor’ Boss Jeff Probst Says Kalshi and Polymarket Are ‘Incentivizing People to Lie, Cheat and Steal’; Kalshi Is Now Considering Measures to Prevent Spoilers

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Hot I.P.O Summer + What Is A.I. Doing to Math? + HatGPT

The “Hard Fork” team is taking a break this week as we prepare for our upcoming live show in San Francisco.

While we’re away, we’re bringing you a recent episode of “Interesting Times” with Ross Douthat that we really enjoyed.

In this episode, Ross talks with Andrew Miller, writer of the transportation policy newsletter “Changing Lanes” and co-author of the book “The End of Driving.”

Together, they explore the potential benefits of driverless cars — from fewer car crashes to reclaimed time and attention — as well as what could be lost if we don’t have to be in the driver’s seat anymore.

Guest:

 • Andrew Miller, writer of the newsletter 
“Changing Lanes.”

Additional Reading:

 • A full transcript and video of this episode can be found 
here • . 

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Interesting Times: Why Are We Still Driving?

This week, we headed to Mountain View, Calif., for the annual developer event Google I/O. We share our reactions to Google’s biggest announcements, including a revamped search box, new agentic tools that compete with OpenClaw and an updated flash model of Gemini that the company says is faster than competitors. Then, we ask Sundar Pichai, the company’s chief executive, how he’s responding to growing evidence that the public is souring on A.I., what advice he’d give to college grads frightened by the current job market and where the company stands relative to competitors in the A.I. race. Finally, we run through the other big tech headlines of the week in our segment System Update.

Guest:

 Sundar Pichai, • chief executive of Google.

Additional Reading:

 Google Changes Its Search Box for the First Time in 25 Years
 How Google Is Starting to Win the A.I. Race
 Elon Musk Loses $150 Billion Suit Against OpenAI and Sam Altman
 Before Mass Layoffs, Meta Reassigns 7,000 Workers to Focus on A.I.
 Pope to Launch Encyclical on AI Alongside Anthropic Co-Founder
 Was a Story That Just Won a Literary Prize A.I.-Generated?
 Book on Truth in the Age of A.I. Contains Quotes Made Up by A.I.

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Our Field Trip to Google I/O + A Sit-Down With Sundar Pichai + System Update

This week, between the president’s negotiations in China and a potential executive order, we discuss why the Trump administration seems to be changing its tune on A.I. safety. Then, Nikesh Arora, chief executive of Palo Alto Networks, the largest cybersecurity company in the world, gives us a firsthand account of where we stand in the race to secure the internet. And finally, we run through some of the wildest headlines of the week in a round of Hot Mess Express.

Guest:

 Nikesh Arora • , chief executive and chairman of Palo Alto Networks.

Additional Reading:

 White House Considers Vetting A.I. Models Before They Are Released
 Chief Executives to Accompany Trump to China
 Is Anthropic’s New A.I. Really That Scary? It Depends Whom You Ask.
 Venmo Finally Takes Privacy Seriously
 Amazon Staff Use A.I. Tool for Unnecessary Tasks to Inflate Usage Scores
 Graduates Boo Commencement Speech About A.I.
 Dua Lipa Files $15 Million Suit Against Samsung for Using Her Face to Sell TVs
 EBay Rejects GameStop’s $55 Billion Takeover Bid
 Shein, Temu Trade Blows as UK Trial Spotlights Supply Chains
 People Are Seriously Pissed That Grindr Outed Them With Its Latest Madonna Advert
 Sam Altman Testifies That Elon Musk Wanted Control of OpenAI

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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A.I. Safety Is So Back + Mythos Mayhem with Nikesh Arora + Hot Mess Express

This week we’re taking another look at prediction markets and a new series of scandals. Is Congress finally ready to rein them in? Then, the journalist Joanna Stern returns to the show to discuss her new book “I Am Not A Robot,” all about turning her life over to a chatbot for a year. And finally, Hard Fork’s Rachel Cohn reports back on her month attending classes at the Strother School of Radical Attention, the center of a movement to resist the commodification of attention by technology companies.

 

Guests: 

 Joanna Stern, • chief everything officer at 
New Things
 Rachel Cohn • , producer of “Hard Fork”

 

Additional Reading:

 Soldier Used Classified Information to Bet on Maduro’s Ouster, U.S. Says
 Soldier Pleads Not Guilty in $400,000 Betting Case Over Maduro’s Ouster
 French weather service alerts police to tampering after suspicious Polymarket bets
 The Multi-Trillion-Dollar Battle for Your Attention Is Built on a Lie

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Can the U.S. Rein in Prediction Markets? + Joanna Stern on Her Year of A.I. Experiments + Our Producer Goes to Attention School

This week, OpenAI announced a loosened partnership with Microsoft and an aggressive new strategy to secure computing power. We unpack what these updates signal about OpenAI’s business strategy and whether the company can scale while balancing a trial against Elon Musk and investor concerns over missed financial targets. Then, the A.I. researcher Dr. Adam Rodman, of Harvard Medical School, returns to tell us about the most significant ways A.I. is changing how doctors treat patients. And finally, can an LLM trained only on very old texts predict the future? We’re talking with one of the creators of the chatbot talkie.

 

Guests:

 Dr. Adam Rodman • , internal medicine physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and assistant professor at Harvard Medical School.

 David Duvenaud • , associate professor at the University of Toronto, former team lead at Anthropic and co-creator of
 talkie • .

 

Additional Reading:

 Microsoft and OpenAI Loosen Their Partnership
 Elon Musk and Sam Altman’s Epic Fight Heads to Court
 OpenAI Misses Key Revenue, User Targets in High-Stakes Sprint Toward IPO
 Take It From a Doctor: It’s OK if Your Medical Advice Comes From A.I.

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

OpenAI’s Big Reset + A.I. in the Doctor’s Office + Talkie, a pre-1930s LLM

This week, Tim Cook announced he would step down as chief executive of Apple. We discuss what he got right and what he got wrong, and we offer some unsolicited advice for his replacement, John Ternus. Then, Andrew Yang joins us to discuss A.I.-powered job automation and why universal basic income may be making a comeback. And finally, we catch up on more recent tech news with a round of HatGPT.

 

Guest:

 Andrew Yang • , chief executive of Noble Mobile and author of “Hey Yang, Where’s My Thousand Bucks?”

 

Additional Reading:

 Tim Cook Will Step Down as Apple C.E.O.
 Who Is John Ternus, Apple’s Low-Profile Leader?
 Why U.B.I. Is Making a Comeback
 His 2020 Campaign Message: The Robots Are Coming
 This Pasta Sauce Wants to Record Your Family
 Chinese Robot Beats Human Best Time in Half-Marathon, After a Stumble
 What Happens When A.I. Runs a Store in San Francisco?
 Meta to Start Capturing Employee Mouse Movements, Keystrokes for A.I. Training Data
 SpaceX Strikes Deal With Cursor for $60 Billion
 OpenAI Beefs Up ChatGPT’s Image Generation Model

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tim Cook’s Legacy + The Future of U.B.I. With Andrew Yang + HatGPT

This week, amid violent attacks on the homes of the OpenAI chief executive Sam Altman and the Indianapolis councilman Ron Gibson, we debate why artificial intelligence and data centers are so unpopular. Then, Kara Swisher returns to the show to discuss her new docuseries on Silicon Valley’s obsession with living longer. And finally, can chief executives replace themselves with A.I.? Mark Zuckerberg seems to be trying.

Guests:

 • Kara Swisher, tech journalist and host of the podcasts “Pivot” and “On With Kara Swisher.”

Additional Reading:

 Shots Fired at Indianapolis Councilman’s Home, After Vote Backing Data Center
 Man Held in Attack on OpenAI Chief’s Home Had List of A.I. Leaders, Officials Say
 Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever
 Meta Builds A.I. Version of Mark Zuckerberg to Interact With Staff

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A.I. Backlash Turns Violent + Kara Swisher on Healthmaxxing + The Zuck Bot Is Coming

This week, we look at the cybersecurity threats that a new unreleased model from Anthropic are posing to software everywhere. And we ask whether Project Glasswing, the company’s bold new defense initiative, will give tech companies enough of a head start to secure the web. Then, we’re joined by Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz of The New Yorker to discuss their blockbuster new profile of Sam Altman. And finally, we look to the skies for this edition of One Good Thing.

 

Guests:

 Ronan Farrow • , investigative reporter and a contributing writer to The New Yorker.

 Andrew Marantz • , staff writer at The New Yorker.

 

Additional Reading:

 Anthropic Claims Its New A.I. Model, Mythos, Is a Cybersecurity ‘Reckoning’
 Why Anthropic’s New Model Has Cybersecurity Experts Rattled
 Sam Altman May Control Our Future — Can He Be Trusted?
 Artemis II Moon Launch

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Interesting Times: Why Are We Still Driving?

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