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WBUR

Hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson dig into the internet's vast and curious ecosystem of online communities to find untold histories, unsolved mysteries, and other jaw-dropping stories online and IRL.

Endless Thread

Who gets credit for starting a meme? Usually... nobody — they're made too quickly and organically. In the case of one of the most famous bait-and-switch memes of all time, the "Rick Roll," we may be looking at something experts call convergent evolution. Did the Rick Roll originate with a piece of code on the message board 4Chan, or with a prank call to a local sports show in Michigan? And why does the Rick Roll have such staying power? Is it codified in the DNA of the song itself?

We explore the meme’s origin, the history of the song, "Never Gonna Give You Up," and its impact on both internet users during COVID-19 and on the performer himself.

This episode was originally published on Oct. 08, 2021.

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Encore: Never Gonna Give You Up

2025 marks 20 years of Google Maps — a tool that many of us would be, quite literally, lost without.

We hear from New Orleanians who used Google Maps/Google Earth in its inaugural year to survey the damage to their homes following Hurricane Katrina.

We also talk to the internet's Map Men, who ask whether "the best maps humanity has ever produced are simultaneously the worst maps for humanity?" in their new book, "This Way Up: When Maps Go Wrong (And Why It Matters)."

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Lost without you: 20 years of finding (losing?) our way with Google Maps

There's a lot of drone warfare footage on the internet from Ukraine and Russia. But over the last year, a surprising change has emerged, via photos from the battlefront posted online. It has become clear that a huge part of the drone war, from dropping grenades on soldiers in bunkers, to dropping explosives on infrastructure or airfields, is wired. Those wires are fiber optic cable, stretching from drone operators to the drones, which spool out cable across the ground and over trees along the battlefront. These drones are often single-use rarely returning from the mission they set out on. And the spools of fiber optic cable, stretching over 30-50 kilometers, don't get cleaned up. We explore this evolution of drone use in the conflict - where it came from, and why.

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Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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The drone web: how consumer drones have covered Ukraine's battle lines with fiber optic cable

The internet decides what's for dinner.

Ruby Tandoh is the author of the new book, All Consuming: Why We Eat the Way We Eat Now. A stint on the Great British Bake Off when she was in college launched her into the world of cookbooks — increasingly irrelevant in a world where we're more likely to turn to Google for a recipe than turn to our bookshelves — and provided her an education in how pop culture stokes our cravings. She takes Ben and Amory on a journey from the surprising history of AllRecipes and the "world's best lasagna," to the TikTok food trends of today. (Spoiler: they don't always taste particularly good.)

Show notes:

All Consuming: Why We Eat the Way We Eat Now

Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

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Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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What's on the menu: Ruby Tandoh on how the internet and algorithms shape our appetites

In honor of the day-after-Thanksgiving leftover sandwich, we're revisiting our conversation with Barry Enderwick, the man behind the beloved and wildly popular "Sandwiches of History" social media accounts.

Barry joined Ben and Amory to make a triple-decker sandwich from 1958, and to talk about his first cookbook, "Sandwiches of History the Cookbook: All the Best (and Most Surprising) Things People Have Put Between Slices of Bread."

To quote Barry's signature phrase, we think you should give this episode "a GO!" If you're hungry for more, check out Sandwiches of History on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Reddit.

 

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Episodes we love: Sandwiches of History

Endless Thread serves up two of Reddit's most absurd food sagas. First course: Chivegate, in which a Redditor vows to chop a cup of chives daily until the kitchen confidential subreddit declares perfection, only to be accused of fraud. Second course: A Reddit user desperately seeking advice on how to quietly move 13 two-thousand-pound pallets of margarine.

Show Notes:

 • u/occasionallyvertical's post on 
r/UnethicalLifeProTips
 r/kitchenconfidential

This episode was produced and co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Production assistance from Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Chiveman and a mountain of margarine

Ben and Amory share two stories about some out-of-the-box internet trolling. First, Amory tries to untangle a web of rumors surrounding an unusual dish from New Zealand. Then, Ben takes us aboard Terri's Tourz, an alleged Everglade tourist attraction claiming to offer the nation's first ever tours of the South Florida Detention Center known as Alligator Alcatraz.

Show notes:

 3 Facts About New Zealand I Didn’t Know Until I Moved Here (Medium)
 Was this post a joke? (r/newzealand)
 Terri's Tourz

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Fryders and Alligator Alcatraz tours: When trolls get inventive

This November, we're playing some of our favorite episodes from the past alongside new stuff, so that newer listeners can experience our back catalogue. And LoFi Girl is one that holds up, big time!

If you've ever searched for "chill beats for studying" or some other form of lean back, endless playlists without vocals and with a consistent vibe, you've probably come across "Lofi Girl."

A livestreamed Youtube channel featuring a looped animation of a girl in a cosy apartment on her desk at night, the channel has brought in millions upon millions of views and subscribers. It's also the big bang for an expanding universe, from additional channels and streams featuring slightly different animated characters and music genres, to copycats, to memes and lore - including stories about a mysterious French music producer, Dimitri.

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Episodes we love: Lofi Girl

While some people find Labubus terrifying, millions of others find their big eyes and furry features irresistibly adorable. Why? From Labubu dolls taking over TikTok, to emoji taking over our text messages, cuteness is all over the internet. Ben and Amory talk to Joshua Paul Dale, professor at Tokyo's Chuo University and the preeminent cuteness expert about how cute has conquered all.

A previous version of this episode incorrectly stated that Despicable Me was a Disney movie. The episode has been updated to reflect that Despicable Me is a production of Illumination and Universal Pictures. 

Show notes:
Irresistible: How Cuteness Wired our Brains and Conquered the World (Profile Books)

The Cute Studies Project

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, edited by Meg Cramer, and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Labubus, lafufus, and Hello Kitty: How cuteness conquered the internet

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now... again! Yes, we're revisiting our episode about the website for the 1996 movie "Space Jam," which is still up and functioning nearly 30 years later.

Amory and Ben talk to the hilarious team behind this digital artifact and hear the unlikely story of its continued existence.

Show notes:

 • The 
Space Jam • website

 'Space Jam' Forever: The Website That Wouldn't Die • (Rolling Stone)

 • The 
TIL post • on Reddit

 Hollywood in Pixels
 SpaceJamCheck • on X

 Teach Yourself Web Publishing with HTML in 14 Days
 Welcome to the Space Jam, Again • (The New York Times)

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Episodes we love: Welcome to the Jam

The release of Lifetime's 6-part documentary series "Surviving R. Kelly" has sparked new conversations about the R&B singer -- at the water cooler, on social media, and of course, on Reddit. This episode comes to us from WBUR's "Edge of Fame" podcast, who spoke to a family that claims R. Kelly is holding their daughter hostage. It includes some upsetting details, so discretion is advised. 

***
Survey alert: Tell us what you love about the show, what you want more of; what you could stand a little less of. And if you complete the survey, we'll send you an extra episode (what Ben's calling a "dashboard confessional") in January.

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Thank you!

Bonus: R. Kelly Vs. The Savages

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