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Daniel Thorson

A podcast based inquiry into the next phase of the human experiment.

Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next

After more than a decade of exploring what's emerging at the edges of culture and consciousness, it feels clear that we've crossed some kind of threshold - we're no longer in a time of gathering ideas, but of coming into deeper intimacy and action. 

Thank you for accompanying me on this journey of inquiry. While Emerge is complete, I'm continuing to write and explore these threads through The Intimate Mirror on Substack, and I pray we find our way through these precarious times together.

My Substack: https://intimatemirror.substack.com/

My Coaching Work: http://www.dthorson.com

The Final Episode of Emerge

Daniel shares his feelings and disorientation in the aftermath of a profound experience and Jane opens up about living with a life-threatening health condition. They discuss the intensity and beauty of working with pain and facing endings. They then turn to the value of “being local” and the critical importance of bringing people together in physical space. Jane discusses her work with Imaginisma, an organization that describes itself as “a new kind of incubator for remembering, contacting, and amplifying the aliveness and grace of being human,” and the duo explores “aliveness” as a guiding principle. Themes of rediscovering simple, fundamental qualities of our humanity and rooting growth in the rich context of local relationship and “holy work” are contrasted with modern tendencies toward philosophical abstraction, reductionism, and trauma fixation. Finally, Jane and Daniel muse on the challenges and abnormalities of our era and their sense of hope for their own work and for today’s younger generations.

1:17 Daniel's experience of a profound opening through intimacy with pain

7:49 Jane's experience facing a life threatening condition

14:02 Pain, beauty, and "holy work"

19:56 The value of being local, especially as an antidote to abstraction

28:38 Relationship, love, and the power of bodies in space

33:42 Describing "holy work" and the philosophy of Jane's Imaginisma project

39:25 Searching for life purpose and "being in the house of aliveness"

45:21 How Jane's work straddles the material and the imaginal/etheric

49:31 Rediscovering life's latent magic and fundamental qualities of being human in the digital age

56:41 The orientation of Jane and Daniel's work toward inspiration and action (over philosophical abstraction)

1:01:24 Misconceptions about personal development and issues with pain and trauma fixation

1:08:50 Casual encounters with strangers

1:10:32 The abnormality of our times, the meaning of "normal," and "sewing seeds of ecstasy for the future"

1:14:47 A beautiful future beckoning in spite of a tragic world

1:19:38 Conclusion

Imaginisma

Daniel's Unfolding Coaching Offering

Civilizations never just happen. They are brought into existence quite consciously, with unbelievable compassion and determination, from another world. Then the job of people experienced in ecstasy is to prepare the soil for them; carefully sow and plant them; care for them; watch them grow." ― Peter Kingsley, A Story Waiting to Pierce You: Mongolia, Tibet and the Destiny of the Western World

Jane recommended a poem to accompany this episode, 'Taking of Emily Dickinson's Clothes'.

Jane Weintraub - Discovering Your Holy Work

John Churchill joins Daniel to discuss the relationship between Attachment Theory and the process of awakening. Weaving together strands from Buddhist psychology and developmental psychology, John describes the Bodhisattva path and the development of a Planetary Dharma through the lenses of attunement and attachment. Topics covered include the development of the heart, the definition and various dimensions of attunement, and the difficulty of finding trustworthy spiritual teachers and community. John also shares theory and practice perspectives on the development of healthier attachment and offers words of encouragement for community building in difficult times.

0:00 Introduction and background for the talk

2:43 Western and Eastern Psychology and Attachment Theory

5:01 The attachment and attention systems and the sense of self

10:37 Addressing the split between the heart and the mind

16:21 Buddhist perspectives on the healing of the attachment system

21:26 Right relationship, attunement, and the dimensions of the heart

26:42 Developmental psychology and attunement

28:42 Levels of attunement and the significance of intuition

36:46 Collective psychological and structural components of attunement 

40:52 Awakening with and without the heart as a central point of focus

48:09 Discernment on the Buddhist path and a developmental model of the Bodhisattva

52:32 The significance of time in spiritual development

55:50 Finding trustworthy teachers and avenues of practice

1:04:30 Putting the difficulty of finding a reliable spiritual path in perspective

1:07:33 Theoretical perspectives and practical advice for developing healthier attachment 

1:20:23 Summarizing the development of healthy attachment and the Bodhisattva path from the perspective of attachment theory

1:23:37 Closing thoughts: Coming together and taking care of each other

John Churchill - Attunement as World Medicine

Daniel and Jordan Hall discuss Jordan’s recent conversion to Christianity and the evolution of his worldview. How did a tech pioneer and futurist intellectual who would have said his chances of being baptized were “exactly zero” only five years ago become a convert? Daniel and Jordan talk about their respective “paths to humility” and the importance of religious community and traditional wisdom in the modern world.

Topics include the tension between innovation and tradition, Game A and Game B, the search for deeply connected communities, the importance of grief, the evolution of modern Christianity, cultural attitudes towards Christianity, and the power of committing to Truth.

0-3:34 Jordan’s recent conversion to Christianity

3:35 The evolution of Jordan’s worldview and his relationship to religion since childhood

9:11 The 2008 financial crisis and the birth of “Game B”

16:55 Searching for “Civium” (seeking out a philosophically aligned community) 

23:07 Going to Black Mountain, North Carolina

31:18 Reflections on attending church and turning towards religion

42:06 Getting to humility

47:56 The importance of grief

49:54 “Religion that is not a religion” and the “Two Worlds Mythology”

53:26 Addressing the condemnation of Christianity in modern culture

1:02:57 Jordan’s thoughts on shifts in modern Christianity

1:06:36 The value of religious community and tradition in a neophilic culture

1:12:47 Committing to Truth

1:14:07 Wrap-up

Jordan Hall Converts to Christianity

After a long career using many therapeutic modalities, for more than a decade, Bob Falconer has devoted his practice exclusively to Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy. Bob has completed all levels of IFS training and continues to study with many of the senior IFS trainers. He co-authored the book Many Minds, One Self with IFS founder Richard Schwartz and has helped to train more than a thousand people in IFS. 

For the past several years, Bob has been devoted to completing the extensive research and writing of his new book, The Others Within Us, which deals with “unattached burdens,” “guides” and what has sometimes traditionally been referred to as spirit possession.

In this episode, Daniel and Bob discuss Bob’s personal trauma and the historical fight for the cultural and professional recognition of abuse, trauma and PTSD. They then delve into the history of psychotherapy and its connections to capitalism and colonialism and Bob’s perspectives on Internal Family Systems (IFS). While exploring the major themes of Bob’s book, they discuss the porous nature of mind, differing cultural models of mind, psychosis and spirit possession, Bob’s personal experiences with “the others within us,” the imaginal realm, and how Western psychology might shift from a “mono-mind” perspective to a “porous mind” one in the future.

Timestamps

 • 03:39 Intro

 • 05:29 Bob’s Abusive Upbringing and Early Spiritual Experiences

 • 11:07 How Internal Family Systems Has Helped Bob Become a “Man of Joy”

 • 13:37 The History and Evolution of Modern Cultural Conceptions of Abuse, Trauma and Mind

 • 21:03 Competition, Capitalism and Colonialism in Psychotherapy

 • 23:42 Internal Family Systems and Multiplicity of Mind

 • 28:43 Bob’s Book and His Perspectives on The Porous Nature of Mind

 • 31:48 “Something Foreign In My Mind”: The Client Who Changed Bob’s Perspective

 • 39:09 “The Others Within Us”: The Core Claim of Bob’s Book

 • 45:36 Generational Trauma and Different Cultural Approaches to “The Others Within Us”

 • 49:19 How Forces Not Clearly Linked To Our Personal History Might Get Into Us

 • 52:53 Limitations of the Western Conception of Mind and Differing Cultural Interpretations of “Psychosis”

 • 57:39 Possible Portals To A More Widespread Recognition of The Porosity of Mind

 • 1:00:05 Navigating The Imaginal Realm

 • 1:03:51 How Coaches and Practitioners Can Make Space for Porosity of Mind and The Others Within Us

 • 1:09:20 Closing

The Others Within Us

Bob Falconer - Internal Family Systems and Spirit Possession

Tasshin – which means “to reach or achieve truth” – describes himself as an “online pilgrim wandering this precious world for the benefit of all beings.” 

In this episode, Daniel talks with Tasshin about some of the lessons he has learned and his unique insights into what it means to “live your vow,” from clarifying one’s sense of unique purpose to effectively coordinating with individuals and groups. While breaking down a statement on “bottlenecks” from Tasshin’s recent article, they outline a powerful framework that connects inner and outer work and service. 

Topics covered include productivity, psychology, ethics, effective coordination, the technological and poetic attunements (as described by Heidegger), the pathology of trying to “solve the world’s problems,” and the duo’s friendship, which dates back to their two-plus years together at the Monastic Academy.

Tasshin's Home on the Internet

Support Emerge on Patreon

Timestamp

02:15 Daniel and Tasshin’s Personal Connection and Mutual Inspiration
10:29 Overview of Tasshin’s Recent Article and Reading of His “Bottleneck” Statement
16:33 “Finding Your Vow Is The Bottleneck On Productivity”
24:02 Living One’s Vow/Purpose As An Iterative Process
28:23 Addressing Doubts Regarding The Concept of “Vow”or “Unique Purpose”
31:53 “Productivity Is The Bottleneck On Strategy”
44:37 “Strategy Is The Bottleneck On Effective Coordination”
47:57 Different Levels of Harmonization
54:17 Trusting Yourself, Trusting Experience, Trusting Life
58:52 From Solving The World’s Problems to Focusing On Goodness, Truth, Beauty, and Playing One’s Part
1:07:52 Closing

Tasshin - Fullstack Harmony for Maximum Deep Benefit

This episode is a 're-Cast' from the Coach's Rising podcast, hosted by Joel Monk. I was so moved and inspired by the conversation I thought I'd share it with you all on my stream. I've been following John Churchill's work for some time, and this was exactly the conversation I wanted to have with him. It's a beautiful episode, and I hope you enjoy. 

Dr. John Churchill is a Doctor of Psychology and teacher of Buddha Dharma as well as a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine and author. John’s interest in psycho-spiritual development, Integral theory, Contemplative studies, Western Esotericism, and Mahayana Buddhism began in his adolescence, leading him to spend several years as a Buddhist monk at Samye Ling Monastery in Scotland. During this time, John received the esoteric Planetary Dharma transmissions that would in time unfold as his contribution to a planetary fourth turning teaching. He is also a founding member of the Integral Institute.

WEBSITES
https://www.karunamandala.org/
https://samadhiintegral.com/

https://www.coachesrising.com/

John Churchill - The Three Strands of Awakening [From the Coach's Rising Podcast]

Vince Horn and Daniel discuss the evolution, benefits, and potential of social meditation. They explore the new meditatewith.ai app created by Vince and Interbeing Inc. co-founder Chris Ewald. The app allows users to practice social meditation with an AI partner, with the ultimate goal of deepening the realization of human interconnectedness in everyday life. Vince and Daniel discuss how social meditation can affect relationships and networks, and how the practice might help address core issues of alienation from self, other, and world at the heart of the meta-crisis.

Vince Horn is part of a new generation of teachers translating age-old wisdom into 21st century code. A computer engineering dropout turned modern monk, Vincent spent his 20s co- founding the Buddhist Geeks project while doing a full year of silent meditation practice on retreat.

Timestamps

3:54 Intro

5:36 Intro to Social Meditation

11:23 Evolution of Social Meditation

16:33 The Role of Language in Meditation

21:50 Significance of Meditation Moving into the Inter-Relational Context

24:53 Social Meditation’s Effects on Relationships

26:04 The Meditatewith.ai App & The Issues It Addresses

30:11 Intra-Connection, Interconnection & How Social Meditation Can Impact Groups

34:19 Vince’s Inspiration For This Work

38:43 How AI Is Used in the App

49:09 Social Meditation and the Unfolding of the Spiritual Path

53:36 Creating and Refining a Protocol for Social Meditation

57:30 Value of Social Meditation for the Meta-Crisis

1:01:12 Next Steps for the App

1:03:09 Wrap-up

Try the app at meditatewith.ai

Vince Horn - Meditate with AI

In this conversation, John, Bonnie, and Thomas discuss various frameworks on what wisdom is, how it functions, and the different types and scales of complexity in which wisdom may arise. The conversation explores themes of wisdom and complexity with both depth and breadth, navigating the topic philosophically and pragmatically, and ultimately arriving at wisdom's relationship with the "It" beyond all relationship.

This conversation is brought to us by the Respond Network. The Respond Network is a distributed research network focused on addressing the meta-crisis by researching and cultivating wisdom.

Respond Network Practitioners taking place August 7th – 12th, 2023 in Bergerac, France

Daniel's Patreon

Timestamps

0:00 - Intro

5:59 - Virtue Reactivation

8:19 - Wisdom vs. Development & Complexity vs. Rootedness

12:47 - Wisdom as a function of Domains of Complexity

17:48 - Wisdom as a function of Relationship

20:30 - Wisdom as the Interplay between Sophia & Phronesis

25:35 - Moving between Scales of Sophia & Phronesis

30:37 - Vertical and Horizontal Axes of Wisdom & Complexity

35:41 - Letting Go of Complexity into New Emergence

38:35 - Receptivity to Spontaneity

40:20 - Reorientation Towards Rootedness

42:50 - Accessing What is Fundamental Through Rootedness

49:59 - John Explicating Bonita's Demonstration of the Topic

51:22 - Mindfulness Mirroring

56:27 - Recognizing the Exemplification of the Sacred as a Function of Wisdom

1:02:34 - The World as a grounding agent for Wisdom

1:05:24 - When and How did 'It' show up?

1:12:10 - The 'It' is Beyond Relationship

1:24:14 - In Story'ing

1:26:14 - Mindfulness Mirroring II

Bonnitta Roy, John Vervaeke, Thomas Steininger - Wisdom & Complexity [RSPND Network]

In this conversation I speak with Jill Nephew. Jill, a former AI black box algorithm engineer with extensive experience in developing software architectures, holds a highly heterodox perspective on the risks associated with LLM AIs. In this conversation we explore Jill's argument that using LLMs like ChatGPT or Bard are like eating plastic for your cognitive agency and natural intelligence, how it is that AIs could cause the rise of new 'supercults', and how another world is possible, if only we learn to ask the right questions. 

If you enjoy this podcast and want to support it please consider becoming a Patreon supporter.

 • [3:52] The critical difference between cognition and thinking

 • [9:49] Why is using LLMs like eating plastic for our cognition?

 • [16:04] What LLMs represent in the context of the meta-crisis

 • [24:51] How LLMs signal trustworthiness and use randomness to confuse us and unground our cognition

 • [36:00] What we can expect to see as LLMs introduce more plastic into our cognition

 • [38:29] What ways of interacting with LLMs might be safe?

 • [47:52] What are cults and how do they function in relationship to our cognition?

 • [53:29] The possibility of an AI 'supercult'

 • [55:27] The most dangerous thing we do to each other

 • [59:48] The deep meaningfulness and richness of grounded cognition, going beyond trauma healing, beyond the monkey mind

 • [1:07:17] Technology to reclaim natural intelligence, the practice of inquiry, the difference between 'good' inquiry and 'bad' inquiry

 • [1:12:31] The rigorous engineering behind good inquiry forms

 • [1:13:29] The power of inquiry, the feeling of insight, how to achieve a quiet mind

 • [1:18:29] Jill's advice for how to respond to the acceleration of planetary destruction

Jill's Conversation with Layman Pascal on the Integral Stage⁠ 

Inqwire, the software Jill has developed to help people reclaim their natural intelligence. 

Support Daniel on Patreon

Jill Nephew - Using ChatGPT is Like Eating Plastic for Your Cognition

In this conversation Tom Murray and I explore Tom’s model of ‘Wisdom Skills’. In this model Wisdom Skills are made up of both the movement of complexification and development (ascending), and the movement of simplicity and subtraction (descending). 

We explore the relationship between simplicity and complexity in the development of wisdom, sort out some confusions about the relationship between spirituality and human development, why spiritual teachers ‘do bad things’, why development without deconstruction is problematic, why spirituality is more ‘down and in’ rather than ‘up and out’, how deconstruction releases complexity and opens possibility, why development is dangerous without spiritual clarity, and how this model allows us to talk bout spiritual realization without unnecessary metaphysical claims.

To read a draft of Tom's work in progress on the "wisdom skills" material we discussed. send him an email at tommurray.us@gmail.com. The title of the manuscript is "Metamodernism, Complexity, Simplicity, and Spirituality."

The other paper we mentioned is "Knowing and Unknowing Reality: A Beginner's and Expert's Developmental Guide to Post-Metaphysical Thinking" (here)

Tom's Wisdom Skills Model (image) and Progressive Summarization of his Metaphysics Paper

Other links to Toms work include: 

Tom's home page: www.tommurray.us

A list of Tom's papers: www.perspegrity.com

The StageLens technology for developmental assessment: www.stagelens.com

Tom Murray - Wisdom Skills

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