Instagram for skin disease? Wait, this could work!

A lot of great ideas seem crazy when you first hear about them.

Today Ryotaro Ako, founder of Atopiyo, explains not only why this is a great idea that is deeply valued by his users, but he also frankly talked about the difficulties in bringing it to market.

We talk about the challenges of forming a long-term, core team and of developing a steady cash flow while trying to focus on a social good, and the risks involved in monetizing a community.

Ryotaro also explains why extensive press coverage and shelves of startup awards don't make developing a sustainable business model any easier.

It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it.

Show Notes

Why share photos of skin conditions? How to find a technical co-founder, and what to do if you can't The two challenges all MedTech startups face The danger of long-term plans without short-term action How to monetize a community, and why it's risky Possible competitors The myth of Japanese conservatism

Links from the Founder

Everything you ever wanted to know about Atopiyo Download the Atopiyo App Friend Ryotaro on Facebook

Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, straight talk from Japan's most successful entrepreneurs. I’m Tim Romero and thanks for joining me. Today's conversation with Ryotaro Ako, founder of Atopiyo, is going to be a little bit different than usual. I first met Ryotaro several years ago at a Disrupting Japan live event, when he had just launched Atopiyo, an online community in which people with atopy and related skin conditions can support each other and exchange information about treatments and progress. Since its launch, Atopiyo has gone on to build an engaged and growing user base, attract extensive and positive press attention, and win a lot of startup awards from press, government, and industry. This is the kind of startup I really want to succeed; the kind of startup I think everyone really wants to succeed, actually. They're using startup techniques and technology to solve problems and actually make the world a little bit better. At least in theory. You see, Ryotaro and Atopiyo have a bit of a problem, and it's a problem that almost all social entrepreneurs run into, but very few managed to solve. If in this interview, I sound like I'm beating up on my guest a bit (by polite Japanese standards anyway) it's coming from a place of desperately wanting to see him succeed. Everyone who has an idea for a social startup and a passion to change the world can learn a lot from Atopiyo's story and this discussion. But you know, Ryotaro tells that story much better than I can, so let's get right to the interview.

Interview Tim: So I'm sitting here with Ryotaro Ako of Atopiyo, which helps people with atopy understand the disease and connect with each other, so thanks for sitting down with me. Ryotaro: Thank you very much, Tim. I'm very glad to talk with you. Tim: And we're glad to have you. I gave a really brief description of Atopiyo but I think you can explain it much better than I can. So what exactly does Atopiyo do? How does it work? Ryotaro: Atopiyo is Japan's first visual SNS for atopic dermatitis. It's like Instagram specializing in atopic dermatitis. Tim: Okay, I mean, at first reaction, sharing pictures of atopy and skin conditions does not sound that appealing. Ryotaro: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tim: So I mean, tell me about your users. Who uses this? Why do they find it valuable? Ryotaro: Yes, yes, our images can be this. So I think it is not so photogenic or happy images but patients want to know the other patients, their skin disease, how are getting better or how getting worse because of these drugs or other drugs, and they want to know their process of the skin disease. So it's useful for the patients, and what's more, they want to choose their images into their private mode. So if you set it to the private mode, this image is only for users. Tim: Okay, so the main benefit the users get is they can compare their treatment and their progress with other people that are having similar treatments and things like that. I can certainly see why that would be valuable, and I guess we got to point out emphatically this is not for medical diagnostics or treatment, right? It's just a social community. Ryotaro: Yes, it's not a medical treatment or a diagnosis, yes. Tim: And we'll dive into that a bit later when we talk about the business model. Ryotaro: Okay, yeah. Tim: But before that, let's talk a bit about you. Ryotaro: Okay, yes. Tim: Yeah, before you started this, I mean, you had atopy yourself and you'd volunteered at a number of patient support groups, right? Ryotaro: Yes. I'm a recovered patient of atopic dermatitis. I recovered, but there are other patients are suffering every day, so I interviewed and I researched their troubles and I decided to develop this app. Tim: When you decided to do this, you didn't have a technical co-founder? Ryotaro: Yeah, yeah. At first, I tried to find programmers for three months, yes, but I gave up because — Tim: It's really hard. Ryotaro: Yeah, I gave up four or five years ago. Tim: I understand. I get contacted by probably, I don't know, four or five people every month, who have this great ideas and say, "Well, I'm looking for a technical co-founder." It's like, man, that's hard. Ryotaro: Yeah, very hard for me. And so, yes, so I participated in a lot of events such as Disrupting Japan Site Anniversary or — Tim: Thank you. Ryotaro: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of events I participated, but it's difficult. Tim: So you finally took matters into your own hands? Ryotaro: Yes, I entered the programming school, an online programming school in Japan. It's called Tech Academy. I studied there for five months. Tim: And that was enough to launch back in 2018, right? Ryotaro: Yes, 2018 is the first launch. Tim: I think this is a story a lot of founders are trying to figure out, you know, they're one person with an idea of how to make something that's worthwhile, but you managed to learn enough to launch the app in five months. Ryotaro: Actually, programming school is five months and after that, I developed myself two months, maybe seven months and more. Tim: But that's great. I mean, I think a lot of people are interested in just how do you go from one person with an idea on how to help people build the app, and how do you turn that into a business. Ryotaro: Yes, yes, yes. Tim: Which is what we want to talk about next. And actually, you've just established a godo gaisha recently, right? Ryotaro: Yeah, last week I founded Atopiyo LLC. Tim: And I'm curious, why a GK instead of a KK? Ryotaro: Because GK is very easy to found and really easy to manage so I chose it. Tim: And I mean, a GK is very easy to convert into a KK later on if you decide to. Okay, so let's talk about the business model. So what's the plan? How is Atopiyo going to make money? Ryotaro: Atopiyo is largest database for atopic dermatitis patients. So now, many pharmaceutical company develop new medicine. Atopiyo provides information about their patients to the pharmaceutical company without their personal information. Tim: At the moment it's just photographs, are you planning on collecting more deeper and detailed information about the users? Ryotaro: Yes, yes. Now, we had profiles like sex or age or atopic period. In the future, we would like to have more deeper information. Tim: Looking back over the past couple of years, you guys won actually a lot of awards from both universities, government programs, incubators, pitch contests, the string of awards for an interesting idea. And I'm curious did those awards help you land the business connections? Did those awards help you get the business or was that almost a separate — Ryotaro: These awards helped me to spread this Atopiyo app, because Atopiyo app is just a volunteer for me so we don't have any budget. So I would like to spread it to atopic patients in Japan so this will help me to efficient spreading in Japan. It’s been shown in more than 100 media. Tim: So the pitch contest was mostly about more of a marketing strategy than a business model development. Ryotaro: Yes. Tim: But I mean, you mentioned you have been working with pharma companies and medical institutions for some time now. So getting them data on atopy patients, it's one of those things that sounds worthwhile as a first step, but let's dig into that a little more. So, you know, the pharmaceutical companies, they already have lots and lots of pictures of atopy and different types of skin diseases. So what are they getting here that's really unique? What is the value they find in this community? Ryotaro: A pharmaceutical company have a data from doctors or a hospital but they don't have the data from patients. Direct patients' data, that's kind of the data called the "real world data". They are thinking -- they are about data and they want to know their suffering, and they want to use it for the new medicine. Yes, that is a new trend for the company. Tim: So for example, the pharmaceutical companies could follow the progress of individuals that are going through a certain kind of treatment or that are taking a certain medication? Ryotaro: A pharmaceutical company, they want to find female situation or a male situation, and children situation or some situation. Tim: One of the challenges in med tech across the board, it kicks in from small one person startups to, you know, very well-funded. Medical technology and medical information is really highly regulated, which is good for the most part. Do you run into any problems with Japan's law on personal privacy and on storing medical information with this app? Ryotaro: Yes, right now, we don't encourage such medical information or medical treatment but in the future, we want to collaborate with hospital or pharmaceutical company. So now,