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Decoder Ring is the show about cracking cultural mysteries. In each episode, host Willa Paskin takes a cultural question, object, or habit; examines its history; and tries to figure out what it means and why it matters.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

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Decoder Ring

Podcasts are everywhere. They’re more popular and influential than they’ve ever been. But at the same time, what makes a podcast a “podcast” has never been more confusing.

Until recently, the definition of “podcast” was clear: audio distributed over the internet. A podcast was something you listened to, not something you watched. But now, almost all of the most popular podcasts have video, too. And most of these podcasts share a video-friendly format: two or three people chatting behind big bulky microphones.

You may have noticed that our podcast, Decoder Ring, does not have video, so these developments have given our team, like many other podcast-makers, no shortage of anxiety. In this week’s episode, we’re embracing our inner chatcast: host Willa Paskin and supervising producer Evan Chung trace the history and evolution of podcasting through their own histories with the medium, and wrestle with their complicated feelings about the state of the format in 2026.

You can watch video of Willa and Evan’s conversation here:

https://youtu.be/JHhQM8IrK7k?si=aOv2BGoSuYhIGF-G

This episode was produced by Max Freedman. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder. Video production by Micah Phillips. Special thanks to Amanda Dobbins, Leon Neyfakh, Nick Quah, Ben Richmond, Amber Robinson, Susan Matthews, Mary Harris, and Mia Lobel.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Sources for This Episode

“How YouTube Ate Podcasts and TV,” Galaxy Brain, Dec. 12, 2025.

Kang, Jay Caspian. “CNN’s ‘Podcast Look’ and the Slow Death of Cable News,” The New Yorker, March 24, 2026.

Quah, Nicholas. “Will Video Kill the Audio Star in 2025?” New York Magazine, Dec. 31, 2024.

Testa, Jessica. “It Was Just a Podcast. Now, It’s Kelce Land,” The New York Times, Apr. 24, 2026.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

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What Even Is a “Podcast” Anymore?

McGruff the Crime Dog arrived on the scene at the dawn of the 1980s, just as a firehose of anti-drug PSAs was inundating the youth of America. These messages didn’t always work as intended—but they did work their way into the long term memories of the kids who heard them.

In the second episode of our two-part series, originally released in 2022, on the weird world of PSAs and very special episodes, we look at how McGruff’s Smart Kids Album influenced everything from straight edge hardcore to a couple’s wedding playlist. We’ll hear from Sarah Hubbard, Daniel Danger, Joseph Cappella, David Farber, Mike Hawes, Robin Nelson, Daisy Rosario, and Tatiana Peralta.

This episode was written by Willa Paskin, and produced by Willa Paskin and Katie Shepherd. It was edited by Jamie York. Decoder Ring is produced by Max Freedman and Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder.

Thank you to Derek John, Ari Merkin, Wendy Melillo, Dan McQuade, Dale Mantley, Larissa Zargeris, Dave Bledsoe, Larre Johnson, Duane Poole, Eric Greenberg, Charles and Karen Rosen, Jennifer Holland, Orla Mejia, Andres Martinez, and everyone else at the Rutgers University Library.

You can listen to Daniel Danger’s McGruff cover album in its entirety or purchase it here. If you are interested in hearing the full McGruff educational program or any of Puppet Productions productions, they are available for purchase at puppetsinc.com.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 2 (Encore)

McGruff the Crime Dog arrived on the scene at the dawn of the 1980s, just as a firehose of anti-drug PSAs was inundating the youth of America. These messages didn’t always work as intended—but they did work their way into the long term memories of the kids who heard them.

In the first of two episodes, originally released in 2022, we take a look at PSAs and their strange afterlife through the lens of a trench-coat wearing bloodhound and his bizarre, yet catchy anti-drug songs. We’ll talk to Dan Danger, Sherry Nemmers, Joseph Cappella, David Farber, Mike Hawes, and Robin Nelson to discover how the McGruff Smart Kids Album came to exist in the first place.

This episode was written by Willa Paskin. It was produced by Willa Paskin and Katie Shepherd. We had production help from Sam Kim. Editing by Jamie York and Derek John. Decoder Ring is produced by Max Freedman and Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder.

Thank you to Wendy Melillo, Dan McQuade, Dale Mantley, Larissa Zargeris, Daisy Rosario, Dave Bledsoe, Larre Johnson, Duane Poole, Ari Merkin, Charles and Karen Rosen, and Eric Greenberg.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)

The sun has always been a hot topic. For centuries, we’ve flip-flopped over whether our health depends on soaking up its rays—or shielding ourselves from them. The current conventional wisdom is clear: Avoid sunburns at all costs, using shade, hats, long sleeves, and the highest SPF sunscreen your drugstore has to offer.

But in a historical sense, that advice is pretty new. Not long ago, doctors told parents to slather babies in oil and let them roast in the afternoon sun. Tanning was once medically prescribed. Though we’ve lived under it for all of human history, we’ve never quite figured out how much sun is actually good for us. So where has the pendulum landed today? And why does it keep swinging in the first place?

In this episode of Decoder Ring, Willa talks to Rowan Jacobsen, author of the new book In Defense of Sunlight: The Surprising Science of Sun Exposure, who argues that our current guidelines have gone too far in emphasizing the risks of the sun. She also speaks with Catherine Cocks, the director of the Syracuse University Press and author of Tropical Whites: The Rise of the Tourist South in the Americas, about how race drove our cultural obsession with suntanning.

This episode was written by Willa Paskin and our supervising producer, Evan Chung, who also produced this episode. Decoder Ring is also produced by Max Freedman. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Fight Over Sunlight

Most of us use GPS—the Global Positioning System—on a daily basis: to find our location when we’re driving, running, shopping, dating, and so much more. But GPS is even more important, and more vulnerable, than you think.

In the last few years, GPS interference has been reported all over the world, from war zones to shipping routes to public squares. What was once the fanciful plot of a Bond movie—bad guy manipulates GPS to start World War III—is increasingly plausible. How did the world come to rely so heavily on such an unreliable system?

In this episode of Decoder Ring, host Willa Paskin talks to journalist Katherine Dunn, author of the new book Little Blue Dot: How GPS Shaped the Modern World. You’ll learn how GPS works, why it was created, how it became so ubiquitous, and why it’s now under attack. You’ll also hear from Dr. Todd Humphreys, an aerospace engineer who manipulated GPS to trick an $85 million superyacht into following his direction—for science, of course.

This episode was written and produced by Max Freedman. It was edited by Willa Paskin and Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Sources for This Episode 

Burgess, Matt. “When a tanker vanishes, all the evidence points to Russia,” WIRED, Sep. 21, 2017.

Dunn, Katherine. Little Blue Dot: How GPS Shaped the Modern World, Bloomsbury Publishing, 2026.

Dunn, Katherine. “How to Hack a Superyacht,” The Walrus, Jun. 13, 2026.

Hopper, Nate. “The Thorny Problem of Keeping the Internet’s Time,” The New Yorker, Sep. 30, 2022.

Hopper, Nate. “The Timekeeper of Ukraine,” The Atlantic, Sep. 21, 2024.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Weapons of Map Destruction

It seems like the only time you hear about new statues these days is when something goes horribly wrong. Unfortunate bronze renditions of Lucille Ball, Cristiano Ronaldo, Dwayne Wade, and many others are always going viral, becoming a fixture of late-night shows and mocking comment sections. Is the internet too harsh a critic? Or is American statuary a total bust?

In this episode of Decoder Ring, host Willa Paskin talks to artist Atalanta Arden-Miller about what’s happened to one of the oldest artistic traditions in the world—why so many contemporary statues turn out off-center, off-kilter, and off-putting. The answer takes us from ancient Greece to Nazi Germany to North Korea.

This episode was written by Willa Paskin. It was produced by Max Freedman. It was edited by Josh Levin and Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Our intern is Phoebe Mulder.

Special thanks to the Works in Progress Podcast, where we first heard Atalanta talk about the dismal state of statuary today.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

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We Are Monumentally Bad at Statues

You know the Tootsie Shot. It’s that image that pops up all the time in movies set in a dense city: a really busy midtown street, everyone going somewhere—and smack in the middle of it all is the protagonist. You can find it in Working Girl, Midnight Cowboy, Wall Street, Heartburn, Elf, Bridget Jones’s Diary, The Devil Wears Prada, The Wolf of Wall Street, and so many more. But while it’s one of the most recognizable camera shots in all of film, it only amounts to a short, transitional moment, often in the middle of a montage, and sometimes lasting for a couple seconds. It is, after all, just someone walking down a crowded street. So why is it so sticky?

Some of the voices you’ll hear in this episode include James Sanders, author of Celluloid Skyline: New York and the Movies; cinematographer Adam Holender; producer Anna Wenger; assistant director Joe Reidy, author Christopher Bonanos, media and entertainment lawyer Sam Bayard, and location manager Mara Alcaly. Also thanks to Jason Bailey, Sam Levy, Glenn Kenny, Carlo Mirabella-Davis, J.D. Amato, David Sims, Bill Parker, Doug Brody, Sean Fennessey, and Jody Rosen.

This episode was produced by Willa Paskin and Benjamin Frisch. Decoder Ring is also produced by Max Freedman and Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Tootsie Shot (Encore)

In Australia, no wedding or school dance is complete without the Nutbush, Australia’s unofficial national dance. The Nutbush – a simple line dance to the song “Nutbush City Limits,” by Ike and Tina Turner – has become as stereotypically Australian as kangaroos, boomerangs, and Vegemite.

And yet, hardly anyone outside of Australia even knows the Nutbush exists. Here at Decoder Ring, we certainly didn’t – until we started getting emails from Australians asking us to investigate its origins. How did an American song become the soundtrack for an Australian national tradition? Who invented the iconic steps, and why does every Australian know them?

Our producer Max Freedman put on his dancing shoes to get some answers. The global, century-spanning story of the Nutbush involves Australia, Tennessee, Denmark, primary schools, gay discos, and demonstrates that even the goofiest cultural touchstones can go surprisingly deep.

In this episode you’ll hear from culture journalists David Mack and Angus Kidman; Nutbush researchers Panizza Allmark and Jon Stratton; dance historians Erica Okamura and Richard Powers; Dr. Fiona Chatteur, Jeremy Santolin, and Brian Kerr.

This episode was written and produced by Max Freedman and edited by Evan Chung, our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Further Viewing

How to do ‘The Nutbush’ - Australian Line Dance 

Dancin’ the Madison on “The Buddy Deane Show” (1960)

Alley Cat Tutorial — Spark Physical Education

The Nutbush on Countdown (December 5, 1976)

Tina Turner — Nutbush City Limits, The Midnight Special (1973)

Tina Turner — Are You Breaking My Heart, Countdown (1980)

Tina Turner: How “The Best” Became Rugby League’s Anthem | ABC News

Tina Turner’s Electrifying 1993 NRL Grand Final Performance

Sources for This Episode

Allmark, Panizza, and Jon Stratton. “Doing the Nutbush: How Australia Got Its Very Own Line Dance.” Continuum: Journal of Media & Cultural Studies, vol. 39, no. 1, 2025, pp. 79–94.

Allmark, Panizza, and Jon Stratton. “The Nutbush Dance Reframed: Further Analysis Related to ‘Doing the Nutbush.’” Continuum: Journal of Media & Cultural Studies, vol. 39, no. 1, 2025, pp. 95–103.

Andrews, Shirley. Take Your Partners: Traditional Dancing in Australia. 3rd ed., Hyland House, 1979.

Bloomfield, Anne. “Health or Art? The Case for Dance in the Curriculum of British State Schools 1909–1919.” History of Education, vol. 36, no. 6, 2007, pp. 681–696.

Bloomfield, Anne. “The Quickening of the National Spirit: Cecil Sharp and the Pioneers of the Folk-Dance Revival in English State Schools (1900–26).” History of Education, vol. 30, no. 1, 2001, pp. 59–75.

Gbogbo, Mawunyo. “Tina Turner and Her Australian Connections: How The Best Became Rugby League’s Anthem and Why Is the Nutbush Mandatory at Gatherings?” ABC News, 24 May 2023.

Jones, Benjamin T. “Australian Politics Explainer: The White Australia Policy.” The Conversation, 9 Apr. 2017.

Kidman, Angus. “Tina Turner: How Australia Saved Her Career.” Angus Kidman, 13 Aug. 2023.

Meiners, Jeff. So We Can Dance? In Pursuit of an Inclusive Dance Curriculum for the Primary School Years in Australia. 2017. University of South Australia, Doctor of Education thesis.

Spencer, Eliza. “Australia and the Nutbush: The Quest for the Origin of a Cultural Phenomenon Goes On.” The Guardian, 5 May 2024.

Ward, Mary. “The Mysterious Allure of the Nutbush and Why the Dance Is Uniquely Australian.” Sydney Morning Herald, 25 May 2023.

Zhuang, Yan. “Australia Remembered Tina Turner with a Dance.” New York Times, 25 May 2023.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tina Turner and the Dance That Conquered Australia

Earlier this year we debuted Decoder Rings Back, our new feature exclusively for Decoder Ring Plus subscribers. In each installment, Willa gets a listener on the phone and tries her best to answer their question about a cultural mystery. We have been having a blast making these episodes, and if you haven’t heard them, we think you’re missing out. So in the hopes of instilling some FOMO that motivates you to support the work we do here by becoming a Decoder Ring Plus subscriber, here’s a sneak peek at the latest installment.

This time, we hear from Julia Latino in Massachusetts who’s been baffled for years by a strange sight: dozens of tiny rubber duckies riding on the dashboard of Jeeps. What started this craze, and why Jeeps of all cars?

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Preview: Decoder Rings Back | Duck, Duck, Jeep

Like the palm tree, the Everglades, Disney World, and the “Florida Man,” the orange is a classic symbol of the Sunshine State. But maybe not for much longer. Production has declined to catastrophic levels, a decrease of more than 95% in less than 25 years. It’s a produce murder mystery—and Decoder Ring is tagging along with reporter Alex Sammon to crack the case. The suspects include insects, hurricanes, mortgage-backed securities, and the American habit of not reckoning with enormous, load-bearing flaws until it’s way too late.

In this episode, you’ll hear from Alex, a feature writer at Slate, who visited Florida to check on the orange and write about its demise. You’ll also hear from Gary Mormino, Florida lover, expert, and professor emeritus of Florida Studies at the University of South Florida.

This episode was produced by Katie Shepherd and Evan Chung, Decoder Ring’s supervising producer. It was edited by Josh Levin. Decoder Ring is also produced by Willa Paskin and Max Freedman. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director.

If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com or leave a message on our hotline at (347) 460-7281.

Get more of Decoder Ring with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of Decoder Ring and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus for access wherever you listen.

Sources for This Episode

Hamilton, Alissa. Squeezed: What You Don't Know about Orange Juice, Yale University Press, 2010.

Hussey, Scott D. “The Sunshine State's Golden Fruit: Florida And The Orange,1930-1960,” USF Tampa Graduate Theses and Dissertations, Apr. 2, 2010.

McPhee, John. Oranges, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1967.

Mormino, Gary. “The enduring but endangered symbol of Florida,” The Gainesville Sun, Apr. 3, 2016.

Sammon, Alex. “Who Killed The Florida Orange?” Slate, Apr. 20, 2026.

Walkey, Will and Amory Sivertson. “The fall of Florida citrus,” On Point, Aug. 19, 2025

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

No Pulp: The Killing of the Florida Orange

How did Hanoi Jane become Exercise Jane?

This is the second part of our two-parter on Jane Fonda's Workout. If you haven't yet, listen to the previous episode "Jane and Leni" first, it will give you the full context for this episode. This time around we explore how an academy award winning actor and controversial political activist managed to transform herself into a category defining fitness icon. It's a story involving a persistent VHS entrepreneur, dozens of bizarre celebrity workout tapes, and Tricky Dick, himself.

Slate Plus members get ad-free podcasts and bonus episodes of shows like Dear Prudence and Slow Burn. Sign up now to listen and support our work.

 

Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jane Fonda's Workout, Part 2: Hanoi Jane's VHS Revolution

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