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An ex-Al Qaeda jihadi turned MI6 spy and a former monk turned filmmaker, have been embedded at the heart of conflicts in the Middle East. Together Aimen Dean and Thomas Small unpack the realities of war, fundamentalism and their global implications through first-hand experience.

CONFLICTED

On a regular Thursday in July 2005, the peaceful morning air was shattered as four bombs ripped through the underground in central London. 52 people were killed, over 700 others were injured. London had never seen bombings of this magnitude before, never with this coordination.

In the first episode of this special series of Conflicted, we hear from survivors, emergency workers and a former Al Qaeda spy as we recount the heart-pounding and tumultuous events of that fateful Thursday in July. 

It sets up a series where we will investigate the last two decades of terrorism and counter terrorism in the UK. How did it develop? What were the motivations behind? And why did terrorism, and the perceived threat of it, change the way in which the UK thinks about its own citizens?

You can binge all episodes of 7/7: The Inside Story exclusively and ad-free, right now on Wondery+. Start your free trial in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or by visiting ⁠Wondery.fm/insidestory⁠

To listen to more bonus episodes like this one, subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

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7/7: The Inside Story – A Thursday in July • Episode 1

ANOTHER EMERGENCY EPISODE

Things are, as ever, moving at lightning speed in the Middle East, as last weekend on December 8th, Bashar al-Assad and his Syrian regime fell. After 13 years of civil war, and more than 50 years of his family’s rule, in an extraordinary turn of events rebel groups from the south and the north marched on Damascus. Assad has fled to Moscow; the future for Syria is unclear.

It’s one of the most momentous events in modern Middle Eastern history, so this week Thomas invited one of the world’s leading experts on the Syrian Civil War onto the show to help make sense of it (and he’s a dear listener to Conflicted himself!) – Aaron Zelin.

Aaron is the Gloria and Ken Levy Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a Visiting Research Scholar in the Department of Politics at Brandeis University, the founder of the hugely acclaimed website Jihadology, and the author of the really excellent book Your Sons Are At Your Service: Tunisia’s Missionaries of Jihad. Many listeners will no doubt have also been glued to his social media feeds over the past week, for updates and analysis, as he brought his incredible insight in real time as Assad’s regime melted away.

Thomas and Aaron discuss the incredible events over the weekend, before looking ahead to what the future might hold for Syria’s minority communities – from the Kurds to the Alawites – and how this new regime will affect the always fascinating geopolitics of the region.

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Aaron Zelin – Assad’s Fall and the Future of Syria

After a short emergency interlude into Syria, Conflicted Season 5 returns to our exploration of the fascinating land of Ethiopia. Moving now to the 20th century, where one man dominated the country: Emperor Haile Selassie, King of Kings.

Haile Selassie is a name synonymous with a few things: Ethiopia’s age of regal power in the 20th century; being the only African monarch to withstand Western colonialism; and, of course, the religion in Jamaica which reveres him as a god, Rastafarianism. But Haile Selassie himself was actually much more human, more mortal, than all this implies – to look at his life is to understand how the modern Ethiopian state came to be formed, or rather, failed to be formed…

In this episode, Thomas and Aimen give us an in depth look at Ethiopia in the 20th century, from Haile Selassie’s prophesied birth, to the political machinations that brought him to power, and how he cemented it in this tumultuous time for his country. The wider geopolitics of his reign were fascinating too, which saw Mussolini’s fascist Italians invade, Western powers joining to expel them in World War 2, and a period of rule afterwards where Selassie preached African unity while himself conquering neighbouring lands. We’ll talk about Selassie in Bath, his resplendent tours throughout Europe, thrilling visits to the League of Nations, and yes, the religion set up in his name to revere him, Rastafarianism.

New Conflicted Season 5 episodes will be coming every two weeks, but if you want to have your Conflicted fix every single week, then you’ll have to join our Conflicted Community.

Subscribers will get bonus episodes every other week, and can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Ethiopia Pt.2: Haile Selassie, King of Kings

To bring in the new year, we have a special Conflicted Community episode this week– an interview with none other than Tom Tugendhat, a Conservative British MP and ex Minister of State for Security. 

Tom is a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a veteran of both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak’s Conservative cabinets. He remains a big figure in the party, having run unsuccessfully for party leader in 2024, and is one of the most outspoken of all British MPs when it comes to the UK's security policy. But most importantly, Tom is a long time dearest listener, friend of Aimen’s and fan of the show, so we invited him on to discuss himself, his time in government and his thoughts on the current crises engulfing the Middle East. 

In this episode Thomas, Aimen and Tom discuss Tom’s background, including some of his formative years spent in the Middle East, as well as his thoughts on the scourge of Islamism in the region and the West, before looking at how effective security policy can be enacted by the West as a new world order takes shape.

New Conflicted episodes will be coming every two weeks, but if you want to have your Conflicted fix every single week, then you’ll have to join our Conflicted Community.

Subscribers will get bonus episodes every other week, and can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Tom Tugendhat – The Dangers of Islamism and the Future of the Middle East

Happy New Year to all of our dearest listeners!

In our second episode of 2025, Thomas and Aimen are doing a Q&A session with all of your questions posted on Discord, and we’ve got some excellent ones this week. 

We’ll be doing a post-mortem of the zombie ideology of baathism now it has been seen off in Syria; we’ll look at why al-Julani is delaying elections for four years time; we’ll ask how HTS will be able to maintain territorial integrity in the future; and we’ll assess how Hamas still has any military capabilities. And to top it off, Thomas and Aimen will take a look at the recent terror attacks in the United States and in Germany before Christmas, bringing you the insiders view on how they were perpetrated and what security officials can do to stop them in the future.

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Q&A – What Will 2025 Hold for Syria & Israel?

Last week, a deal between Israel and Gaza was struck to bring back the Israeli hostages and to bring an end to the bloodshed which has engulfed Gaza over 15 months of fighting, since October 7th 2023. It’s a deal which has brought relief to many, not least the families of hostages and civilians in Gaza, but also questions from others who see Israel as having failed to fully dismantle Hamas and finish the war aims they began their assault on Gaza with. In this episode, recorded last week on February 15th just as the deal was being finally struck, we discuss the deal and give a broader retrospective on the military campaign in Gaza in all its facets, with a man who has been to Gaza and seen much of it first hand.

This week, Thomas invites Andrew Fox on to the Conflicted Community. Andrew is an ex-soldier in the British army, who served in three tours of Afghanistan, including one attached to the US Army Special Forces. Since then he’s worked in academia as a senior lecturer in the War Studies and Behavioural Science departments at Sandhurst, as well as as a research fellow with the Henry Jackson Society. He’s also a regular commentator on defence and foreign policy across the media, including his excellent substack which you can subscribe to here: https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/ 

Thomas and Andrew discuss the deal to bring a halt to fighting in Gaza, as well as his time serving in the British army, how this has affected the ways in which he looks at conflicts, before getting on to a fascinating new report he co-authored which examines the questionable counting of the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry over the course of the conflict.

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Andrew Fox – The Gaza Ceasefire Deal + Hamas’ Questionable Counting

Conflicted comes to the end of our Ethiopia series with an episode beginning at the fall of Emperor Haile Selassie in 1974, and charting the country's tumultuous course through the late 20th century. This was a time characterised by a brutality the country had not witnessed before, as the Communist military dictatorship, known as the Derg, wreaked havoc on the country.

Ethiopia in the 70s and 80s was one dominated by horrifying episodes of mass death – from the Red Terror which engulfed the country in 1977 to 1978, to the terrible famine in the 1980s which caught the world’s attention, birthing Live Aid and songs from Western Musicians to raise money, which would come to be so common (if later criticised) in the decades to come. It was also an era of Cold War intrigue, with Ethiopia thrust into wider geopolitical games involving the US and the USSR – even Cuba! – as well as warring with its neighbours and, eventually, with its own dictatorship. 

Thomas and Aimen bring our discussion of the fascinating and fraught land of Ethiopia to a close with a tour de force, as they discuss all this and more, also setting up the context for the Tigray war which took place in Ethiopia in 2020 - 2022, with devastating consequences. And if you want to find out more about the Tigray War, we recently completed an episode for our Conflicted Community with journalist Martin Plaut, to explain the specifics of the conflict.

New Conflicted Season 5 episodes will be coming every two weeks, but if you want to have your Conflicted fix every single week, then you’ll have to join our Conflicted Community.

Subscribers will get bonus episodes every other week, and can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Ethiopia Pt.3: The Shadow of the Derg

The Conflicted Community is back for another Q&A for all of our dearest listeners. This week, in the first time Thomas and Aimen have got together since the Gaza ceasefire deal, they discuss its implications for the region and the world, with the help of listeners' questions.

From the motivations of the parties involved in the ceasefire, to the question of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, to what Trump has planned for the region and some questions about the Palestinian Authority and the future of Hamas, Thomas and Aimen go deep on whether a true and lasting peace could actually now happen after the fighting has stopped. Will it ignite again? And what role will Al-Sharaa’s new Syrian regime play in it all?

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Q&A – What now for Israel and Gaza?

Conflicted takes on… the Syrian Civil War. 

In the wake of the fall of Assad, with the Syrian Civil War over, at least for the moment, Conflicted is bringing you a bit of a retrospective. In the coming episodes, we’ll be inviting Syrians and other people who experienced the conflict, from a multitude of different perspectives, onto the show to tell us about their experiences of the war. In doing so, we want to create a kind of narrative history as we make sense of this most complex of conflicts from as many angles as we can.

In our first episode, we have an old friend of the show Wassim Nasr, a journalist for France24, who Conflicted Community members will remember from when we spoke to him about his incredible reporting from the Sahel Region of Africa. But Wassim’s reporting on Syria is equally enlightening, with some of the greatest access you will see anywhere. He has been on the ground in Syria throughout the conflict, and was in fact one of the first Western journalists to meet with Ahmed Al-Sharaa, now the country’s interim president, after Assad’s fall. 

In this episode, we’re setting up some crucial context for the Syrian Civil War through the surprising rise of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), providing a nuanced understanding of their evolution from an Al-Qaeda affiliate to a pragmatic political force that ultimately took control of the country. And then to top it all off, we’ll hear all about Wassim’s two meetings with Al-Sharaa…

New Conflicted Season 5 episodes will be coming every two weeks, but if you want to have your Conflicted fix every single week, then you’ll have to join our Conflicted Community.

Subscribers will get bonus episodes every other week, and can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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The Syrian Civil War Pt.1: Wassim Nasr Meets Al-Sharaa

This week for our Conflicted Community members, we have an interview with the Egyptian political activist Dalia Ziada, whose incredible personal story crosses so many of the major events in the modern middle east, from the Arab Spring, to October 7th.

Dalia is an award-winning Egyptian writer and political analyst whose work focuses on governance, geopolitics, and defense policy. In Egypt, she co-founded the Liberal Democracy Institute in 2015, she is the Executive Director of the Center for Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean Studies and also serves as a board member of the Foreign Affairs Committee of Egypt's National Council for Women. She’s a frequent media commentator, advocating for women’s rights and against female genital mutilation in the Muslim World, and she is the author of multiple books, including “The Curious Case of the Three-Legged Wolf - Egypt: Military, Islamism, and Liberal Democracy”, on the Arab Spring and its fallout in Egypt.

In a wide ranging conversation, Thomas and Dalia discuss her story of liberal activism in Egypt, teaching herself out of antisemitism, the Arab Spring, October 7th, and more…

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
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Conflicted Community: Dalia Ziada – Liberal Activism in Egypt, from the Arab Spring to October 7th

With the assassination of Al Qaeda leader Aymen al-Zawahiri ringing in their ears, Aimen & Thomas turn their attention once again to Afghanistan, focusing this time on the Soviet invasion in 1979 and the rise of global jihadism that followed. What led the Soviets to invade? What was Kabul’s Cold War relationship with Moscow like in the run-up to the invasion? What was the U.S.’s true role in the anti-Soviet jihad? And most importantly: why did thousands of young men from the Arab role sign up to fight? Through an in-depth look at the life of the most celebrated ideologue of modern jihadism, Abdullah Azzam, we’ll answer those questions and more, as we continue to assemble the geopolitical puzzle of the modern Middle East.

Listen to exclusive bonus content and get all episodes ad-free by subscribing to Conflicted Extra on Apple Podcasts and Spotify for just 99p/month.
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