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Jeffrey Palermo

The Azure & DevOps Podcast is a show for developers and devops professionals shipping software using Microsoft technologies. Each show brings you hard-hitting interviews with industry experts innovating better methods and sharing success stories. Listen in to learn how to increase quality, ship quickly, and operate well. Hosted by Jeffrey Palermo and sponsored by Clear Measure, Inc.

Azure DevOps Podcast

Mark Seemann is a Danish software developer based in Copenhagen, Denmark. His professional interests include functional programming, object-oriented development, as well as software development in general. Apart from writing two books, he has also written numerous articles and blog posts about related topics. Despite being a mostly .NET developer, Mark takes most of his inspiration from sources across a wide range of technologies, including Haskell and lots of pattern books. Originally poised to become a rock star or (failing that) graphic novelist (in the European tradition) he one day found himself with insufficient talent for either, a master's degree in Economics, and a desire for working with computers. He has been doing the latter intermittently since 1995.
 
 
 
Mark is the author of two books so far: Author of Dependency Injection .NET as well as Code That Fits In Your Head.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:55] Mark talks about the thought process behind writing Code That Fits In Your Head.
 
[10:10] Why doesn’t Mark like software projects?
 
[13:06] Yes, we want to create value for the businesses when we write code, but we also have to have a longer view on things as well.
 
[17:11] Mark shares three of the most things for getting started with a new application.
 
[19:46] Mark walks us through the process of automating a build.
 
[22:42] Most compiler warnings indicate that you have problems with your code.
 
[28:29] What are some of Mark’s resources and pieces of advice for younger programmers?
 
[35:31] In Denmark and Scandinavian cultures, you often feel like the CEO is within close reach and someone that you could easily have lunch with. Mark talks about overcoming resistance in long-time developers when learning something new that may cause some anxiety or insecurity.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
 Architect Tips — New video podcast!
 
 Azure DevOps
 
Clear Measure (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s YouTube
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Code That Fits In Your Head
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.
 
 
 
Quotes:
 
 “We’re the odd types that find it fun to type characters that sometimes test the reaches of the keyboard, and just tell the computer what to do.” — Jeffrey [4:20] “Treat all warnings as errors.” — Mark [18:40] “Nowadays, it’s not so much from the management that the resistance exists, but actually from other people.” — Mark [37:40] 
 
 
Mark: Pluralsight.com/authors/mark-seemann

Mark Seemann: Code That Fits In Your Head - Episode 189

Ravi Ram is a software engineer specializing in .NET, Azure, and intensive, high-stakes software. He started developing in 1998 with basic websites. Moved from Classic ASP with Cart.ASP. After learning about SQL injections after a client hack, he was hired by the California Department of Justice to do that work. Ravi is completely self-taught and has contributed to countless software projects over 30 years.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[3:24] Ravi shares his career journey, starting with web design for a neighbor, moving to classic ASP, and eventually to .NET.
 
[5:12] TechBash is a .NET conference in Pennsylvania, emphasizing its family-friendly atmosphere and the high attendance of families.
 
[8:00] A few of Ravi’s favorite moments and sessions from TechBash.
 
[12:57] Going through code in real-time with one of the TechBash speakers.
 
[16:51] How approachable, diverse, and friendly TechBash is.
 
[17:11] Ravi talks about a session on scope logging with OpenTelemetry, which impressed him with its configuration capabilities.
 
[27:49] Why the duo loves the word “seam”!
 
[28:07] Encouragement for first-time speakers who may be interested in TechBash.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Ravi Ram on LinkedIn
 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhali/
 
 Sandi Metz' Rules For Developers
 https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers
 
 Llewellyn Falco refactoring
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdoSandi 
 
 Metz' Rules For Developers
 https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers
 
 Llewellyn Falco refactoring
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdo
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Ravi Ram: TechBash & Community Conferences - Episode 327

Jeff Fritz is an experienced developer, technical educator, and PM on the .NET team at Microsoft. He’s the producer of the .NET Conf online series of events, and regularly livestreams builds of websites and fun applications. You can follow Jeff for more .NET, .NET Core, and, Visual Studio content on Twitch and Twitter at @csharpfritz.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[2:40] Jeff’s background and the many roles he is involved in.
 
[6:17] Key announcements from .NET Conf.
 
[6:18] Starting with .NET Aspire, and getting it right with version 3.
 
[11:24] Version 3 covers the unattended deployment process.
 
[12:20] Benefits of the aspireify.net website.
 
[18:23] AI extensions for .NET.
 
[22:28] Recommendations for hardware for AI development.
 
[25:35] The static assets features.
 
[28:57] Using Github Copilot.
 
[30:13] Remembering that AI is just a text calculator.
 
[36:21] How people can catch up with the content from .NETConf.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 278 with Jeff Fritz
 
TagzApp
 
Fritz on the Web
 
 AI extensions for .NET
 
Unified AI Building Blocks for .NET using Microsoft.Extensions.AI
 
 Introducing Phi-3
 
Introducing Whisper
 
dotnet on YouTube
 
Microsoft Ignite
 
aspireify.NET
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Jeff Fritz: .NET 9 and Beyond - Episode 328

Sam Basu is a technologist, author, speaker, Microsoft MVP, and gadget-lover and is the Developer Advocacy Manager for Progress Software. With a long developer background, he now spends much of his time advocating modern development platforms & tools on Microsoft/Telerik technology stacks. His spare time calls for travel, fast cars, cricket, and culinary adventures. You can find him as @samidip on the internet.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[3:09] Sam shares his career journey and more about his background as a developer.
 
[5:18] Meeting the users where they are and the importance of adaptability.
 
[8:07] What kinds of use cases are available today for developers to use AI when it comes to UI?
 
[9:15] The two-pronged approach to UI and UX.
 
[13:33] Challenges and opportunities in AI integration.
 
[16:21] Future of the user interface.
 
[21:43] The AI models are exceptionally smart in understanding natural language.
 
[25:41] How GitHub Copilot can help developers.
 
[26:48] The limitations of GitHub Copilot.
 
[30:46] The gap in training for developers for Copilot.
 
[33:06] Use cases on Smart AI.
 
[36:14] The importance of responsible AI development.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Sam on X
 
Sam Basu
 
 Sam Basu Microsoft
 
Smart UI Powered by AI
 
ASP.NET Core
 
Smart AI Components
 
Sakura AI
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Sam Basu: Using AI for the User Interface - Episode 329

Aaron is a Developer Advocate at Microsoft. Having spent 15 years doing web development, he’s seen it all, from browser wars to the rise of AJAX and the fall of 20 JavaScript frameworks (and that was just yesterday!). Always tinkering with something new, he explores crazy ideas like writing your own implementation of numbers in .NET, creating IoC in JavaScript, or implementing tic-tac-toe using git commits. When not sitting at a computer, he can be found spending time with his wife and kids.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:38] Aaron shares his career journey, including his time in consulting and technical sales.
 
[6:48] The importance of understanding both technical and business aspects of software development.
 
[7:36] .NET Aspire and the community toolkit.
 
[15:21] Having a centralized place for discovering and contributing integrations.
 
[17:02] Running Ollama.
 
[21:12] Diving in more to the integration.
 
[24:27] Deployment options for .NET Aspire applications, including Azure Container Apps and Kubernetes.
 
[29:08] Testing and Acceptance with .NET Aspire.
 
[35:02] The process of attaching debuggers to applications and the challenges of debugging distributed applications.
 
[41:23] The community toolkit provides clear guidelines and contributing guides to help developers get involved.
 
[43:42] How people can get more involved and contribute.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
GitHub Community Toolkit
 
Aaron Powell
 
Aaron Powell Website
 
Aaron Powell Microsoft
 
Aaron on X 
 
Aaron on Mastodon Social
 
Aaron on Twitch
 
Aaron on LinkedIn
 
Aaron on Bluesky
 

 

 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Aaron Powell: .NET Aspire Community Toolkit - Episode 330

Brady Gaster is a Principal Program Manager on the .NET and Visual Studio team at Microsoft where he works on Orleans, SignalR, microservices, APIs, and integration with Azure service teams in hopes of making it exciting for developers who work on .NET apps to party in the cloud!
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[6:27] Collaboration with Azure Developer CLI.
 
[8:08] The challenges of integrating ASP.NET Core with existing deployment methods like App Service.
 
[11:45] The main questions they heard at the panel.
 
[13:53] Deploying your dashboard to Azure Container apps.
 
[24:31] Aspire builds on .NET and everything you can do with .NET, you can keep doing.
 
[27:03] Tips for developing against Aspire resources.
 
[27:50] The future focuses on security.
 
[30:02] Optimizing your development environment around DevOps.
 
[34:28] How much is Kubernetes an actual dependency, or can normal .NET applications just use App Service and not be tied to Kubernetes?
 
[39:37] Brady’s thoughts on the benefits of containers and the potential for easier alternatives in the future.
 
[44:06] AI doing a better job of suggesting the right code.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 “Building new (and retrofitting old) apps with .NET Aspire to streamline your development process”
 
 Ep 295 with Brady Gaster
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Brady Gaster: Upgrading .NET apps - Episode 331

James Montemagno is a Principal Lead Program Manager for the Developer Community at Microsoft. He has been a .NET developer since 2005, working in a wide range of industries including game development, printer software, and web services. Prior to becoming a Principal Program Manager, James was a professional mobile developer and has been crafting apps since 2011 with Xamarin. In his spare time, he is most likely cycling around Seattle or guzzling gallons of coffee at a local coffee shop. He co-hosts the weekly development podcast Merge Conflict mergeconflict.fm.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[:36] Jeffrey introduces the concept of .NET Aspire and highlights its integration with Azure DevOps and .NET ecosystem tools.
 
[2:51] The evolution of .NET mobile and desktop development since 2005.
 
[4:45] An overview of .NET Aspire and its focus on simplifying app development and infrastructure orchestration.
 
[11:45] How .NET Aspire supports both local development and cloud deployment.
 
[16:24] Integrating DevOps automation for Azure deployments using bicep templates and Azure Developer CLI (azd).
 
[25:30] Generating infrastructure manifests and deploying them with Azure Developer CLI.
 
[32:51] Configuring Azure resources like Redis Cache for development and deployment scenarios.
 
[35:11] Simplifying cloud deployment for developers using Azure Container Apps.
 
[39:37] Polyglot support in .NET Aspire projects, allowing integration with Python, JavaScript, and more.
 
[44:50] Plans to integrate development tunnels to streamline mobile app testing.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 62 with James Montemagno
 
James Montemagno
 
James on YouTube
 
James Montemagno GitHub
 
James on DevOps
 
James on X
 
 .NET Aspire Manifest plus + azd + Bicep == Mind Blown
 
Aspire Dashboard
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

James Montemagno: .NET Aspire with Azd - Episode 332

Ryan is an Advocate at Redgate focusing on PostgreSQL. Ryan has been working as a PostgreSQL advocate, developer, DBA, and product manager for over 20 years, primarily working with time-series data on PostgreSQL and the Microsoft Data Platform.
 
 
 
Ryan is a long-time DBA, starting with MySQL and Postgres in the late ’90s. He spent more than 15 years working with SQL Server before returning to PostgreSQL full-time in 2018. He’s at the top of his game when learning something new about the data platform or teaching others about the technology he loves.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:10] What made Ryan a database guy?
 
[6:11] CodeMash.
 
[6:58] Discovering the potential of SQL Server.
 
[12:02] The state of the database in 2025 and the things generalist developers should know.
 
[15:27] The challenge of interfacing between database types.
 
[19:57] Is Microsoft Fabric the future?
 
[22:44] Postgres for .NET developers.
 
[24:46] Nuances of migrating from SQL Server to Postgres.
 
[26:01] Postgres resources for data professionals.
 
[35:29] Postgres and its innovative edge.
 
[38:30] What is a vector database?
 
[39:45] The power of Postgres indexing.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 245 with Ryan Booz
 
Figuring Out Fabric
 
SQLGene Training
 
 Introduction to PostgreSQL for the data professional. Kindle Edition
 
Postgres Playground
 
pgEdge
 
 “Name Collision of the Year”
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Ryan Booz: The State of the Database in 2025 - Episode 333

Scott Ambler helps people and teams adopt new ways of working (WoW) and evolve their ways of thinking (WoT), particularly around data warehousing and data quality. He is the creator of the Agile Modeling (AM) (AgileModeling.com) method and Agile Data (AD) (AgileData.org) methods. With Mark Lines, he co-created PMI’s Disciplined Agile (DA) toolkit. As a conference keynote speaker, he speaks about continuous data warehousing (DW)/business intelligence (BI), how to address enterprise data debt, how to succeed at corporate AI, and agile architecture. He has also (co-)authored several books, including Choose Your WoW!, An Executive’s Guide to Disciplined Agile, Refactoring Databases, and Agile Modeling. For a full list of his books, visit Scottambler.com/my-books/.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:29] Scott talks about his career journey.
 
[6:53] Scott’s early involvement in Agile.
 
[8:34] Needing to up our game in the Agile space.
 
[8:55] Agile2025 Conference this summer in Denver, CO.
 
[11:20] Challenges and evolution within the Agile community.
 
[20:01] Are we going to have a new Agile gold rush?
 
[21:47] Keeping an eye out for inappropriate processes.
 
[25:38] How we can do better.
 
[28:17] The Agile Manifesto.
 
[35:03] Importance of database refactoring and continuous data operations.
 
[36:46] What best practices does Scott recommend?
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Scott Ambler
 
Scott Ambler LinkedIn
 
The Future of Agile Isn't Shit
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Scott Ambler: The State of Agile - Episode 334

Chris Ayers is a Senior Site Reliability Engineer on Microsoft’s AzRel Risk SRE team, drawing on years of experience in cloud architecture, software development, and DevOps practices. He’s passionate about continuous improvement, driving reliability, and sharing industry best practices. Outside of work, Chris is a devoted father, technology enthusiast, and avid gamer. Connect with him online to explore insights into cloud operations, agile methodologies, and more. He also organizes DevOpsDays Tampa Bay.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[2:50] Chris Ayers’s career journey and formative moments in site reliability engineering.
 
[3:33] The importance of being open to learning and stepping outside your comfort zone.
 
[8:53] Chris’s talk on Aspire, Azure, and Open AI.
 
[9:30] How Chris is improving Azure’s reliability through internal innovation.
 
[10:16] Benefits of Aspire: orchestration, integration, and abstraction for infrastructure.
 
[12:29] AI extensions in Aspire: how they enable developers to work with different AI models like OpenAI and local models.
 
[14:09] Using OpenTelemetry for seamless integration and monitoring in Azure.
 
[18:38] Prompt engineering: crafting prompts as part of business logic.
 
[20:50] Exploring agentic AI development and multi-agent chatbots.
 
[21:05] AI use cases in healthcare and responsible AI principles.
 
[29:22] Simplifying Azure resource management with Aspire and opinionated defaults.
 
[32:35] Using Honeycomb and other tools for effective telemetry and logging.
 
[33:39] Hugging Face and KAITO: enabling access to a marketplace of specialized AI models and Kubernetes AI integration.
 
[34:10] Running Olama models locally: balancing scale, cost, and use cases.
 
[39:38] AI as a tool to enhance productivity rather than replace people.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Chris Ayers Speaking
 
Chris Ayers Speaker Profile
 
Build with Aspire
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Chris Ayers: .NET Aspire and AI - Episode 335

Tim learned software development the hard way, with lots of dead-ends, confusion, and knowledge gaps. He kept thinking, “It shouldn’t be this hard!”
 
 
 
Now he teaches students how to think and code like professional developers. His goal is to make it easier for others to become a developer. He’s been recognized as a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional every year since 2017.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[:45] How Tim actually got into development at the young age of 12.
 
[6:17] How Tim got over the feeling of not being good enough.
 
[7:55] How Tim got into teaching.
 
[9:42] Tim built his YouTube channel slowly to find a consistent release schedule and passionate audience.
 
[12:55] How to know what language to start in.
 
[19:53] Why Tim is less of a fan of college and why he doesn’t recommend it.
 
[22:26] Coding Boot Camps vs. self-paced courses.
 
[27:47] Tim’s advice for young programmers suffering from impostor syndrome.
 
[33:12] Every application has two jobs: capture information and display information.
 
[38:01] What are a few of Tim’s favorite courses now, and what are universities doing right?
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.network
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Architect Tips — Video podcast!
 
 Azure DevOps
 
Tim Corey
 
Tim Corey YouTube
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Tim Corey: Learning Programming - Episode 241

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