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Jeffrey Palermo

The Azure & DevOps Podcast is a show for developers and devops professionals shipping software using Microsoft technologies. Each show brings you hard-hitting interviews with industry experts innovating better methods and sharing success stories. Listen in to learn how to increase quality, ship quickly, and operate well. Hosted by Jeffrey Palermo and sponsored by Clear Measure, Inc.

Azure DevOps Podcast

April is a senior developer advocate and DevOps practice lead for GitHub, specializing in application transformation and DevOps ways of working. Her focus is working on Microsoft Azure to take customers on a journey from legacy technology to serverless and containers, where code comes first, while enabling them to take full advantage of DevOps. April was previously a cloud consultant and solution architect for various partners in the UK and brings her years of experience in helping customers plan their journey. She also serves as a Hashicorp Ambassador, dedicating much of her time to working with infrastructure as code (IaC). She enjoys making Azure and its features more accessible. Her technical expertise includes PowerShell, Golang, and occasionally TypeScript and C#. In her free time, April enjoys outdoor activities such as hiking, skiing, and scuba diving. Additionally, she is a triathlete who competes in Ironman and Half Ironman events.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[1:57] April’s career journey — from U.S. data center outages and 72-hour shifts to discovering cloud and automation after relocating to the U.K.
 [3:53] How an early Azure migration in 2013 ignited her passion for infrastructure as code and DevOps.
 
[5:33] GitHub’s evolution into a full end-to-end enterprise platform, with a major focus on security, scalability, and developer productivity.
 [6:51] Code Spaces: VS Code in the cloud with 60 hours free per user — solving compute and environment parity issues across teams.
 [10:00] GitHub’s internal use of Code Spaces: every GitHub employee (aka “Hubber”) uses it to work on the github.com codebase.
 [12:29] Code Spaces’ advantages in lab and hackathon settings, including speed, security, and reliability.
 [13:55] Breakdown of GitHub Copilot’s flavors: chat, inline suggestions, edits, pull request reviews, and agentic AI.
 [17:12] Real-world uses of Copilot Edits: generating documentation, writing tests, and making cohesive multi-file changes.
 [20:00] GitHub’s goal of enabling the “10x developer,” not just in speed but in quality, consistency, and creativity.
 
[25:00] How AI tooling is changing how we think about architecture, code reuse, and shrinking monoliths into modular libraries.
 [30:00] Prompting strategies: how different cultures and languages impact the way developers interact with AI tools.
 [32:47] GitHub Workspaces: start from requirements, generate a plan, and get a head start on writing and converting code.
 [35:00] April’s belief that AI-driven development is already here, and edits are one of the best ways to experience that transformation now.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo
 
 .Net Aspire and Data API builder with the Community
 
April on GitHub
 
April on LinkedIn
 
April on X
 
Universe 2024: GitHub Embraces Developer Choice with Multi-Model Copilot, New App Tool GitHub Spark, and AI-Native Developer Experience
 
CoPilot Workspace
 
GitHub Spark
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

April Yoho: GitHub in 2025 - Episode 346

Jeff is the co-creator of Scrum and a leading expert on how the Scrum framework has evolved to meet the needs of today’s business. The framework he developed in 1993 and formalized in 1995 with Ken Schwaber has since been adopted by the vast majority of software development companies around the world. However, Jeff realized that the benefits of Scrum are not limited to software and product development. He has adapted this successful strategy for several other industries, including finance, healthcare, higher education, and telecom.
 
 
 
As the CEO of Scrum Inc. Jeff sets the vision for success with Scrum. He continues to share best practices with organizations around the globe and has written extensively on Scrum rules and methods. With a deep understanding of business process — gleaned from years as CTO/CEO of eleven different software companies — Jeff is able to describe the high-level organizational benefits of Scrum and what it takes to create hyperproductive teams.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[:35] Introduction of Jeff Sutherland, co-creator of Scrum.
 
[3:47] Jeff Sutherland’s background: His experience at West Point and lessons in making work visible.
 
[5:19] Fighter pilot experiences that influenced the operational side of Scrum.
 
[6:02] Transition to the Air Force Academy and work in AI at Stanford.
 
[7:38] Learning complex adaptive systems and the origin of Agile from complex systems theory.
 
[8:30] How complex systems theory impacts Scrum and Agile teams today.
 
[9:25] Jeff’s first experiences applying Scrum in the banking industry.
 
[11:25] The development of Scrum and the 2001 Agile Manifesto.
 
[12:57] Making work visible and organizing teams, from West Point to Toyota to the Agile Manifesto.
 
[13:23] Fast forward to 2024: Issues in Scrum and Agile practices, including sprint lengths and backlog grooming.
 
[14:34] Jeff’s new book: First Principles in Scrum and its relation to Scrum technology stacks.
 
[16:23] Building autonomous systems: Lessons from radiation physics, AI, and complex adaptive systems.
 
[19:16] The influence of autonomous robots on the creation of Scrum.
 
[21:14] Discussion of Scrum and AI, leading to “Extreme Agile.”
 
[22:47] Predictions for the future of Scrum and Agile: Teams becoming 30 to 100 times faster by 2030.
 
[23:37] Example of AI in action: Developing a system to handle expense reports using Scrum principles.
 
[29:37] Challenges with AI-generated code and the need for strong software architecture knowledge.
 
[33:24] The importance of following Scrum “by the book” to achieve hyperproductivity.
 
[35:30] Jeff’s closing advice on adapting to extreme agile to stay competitive by 2030.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo
 
“How the Agile Manifesto Came To Be”
 
Become a beta tester for Jeff Sutherland's AI software project for expense reports: support@quickaireports.com
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Jeff Sutherland: The History of Agile - Episode 348

Ravi Ram is a software engineer specializing in .NET, Azure, and intensive, high-stakes software. He started developing in 1998 with basic websites. Moved from Classic ASP with Cart.ASP. After learning about SQL injections after a client hack, he was hired by the California Department of Justice to do that work. Ravi is completely self-taught and has contributed to countless software projects over 30 years.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[3:24] Ravi shares his career journey, starting with web design for a neighbor, moving to classic ASP, and eventually to .NET.
 
[5:12] TechBash is a .NET conference in Pennsylvania, emphasizing its family-friendly atmosphere and the high attendance of families.
 
[8:00] A few of Ravi’s favorite moments and sessions from TechBash.
 
[12:57] Going through code in real-time with one of the TechBash speakers.
 
[16:51] How approachable, diverse, and friendly TechBash is.
 
[17:11] Ravi talks about a session on scope logging with OpenTelemetry, which impressed him with its configuration capabilities.
 
[27:49] Why the duo loves the word “seam”!
 
[28:07] Encouragement for first-time speakers who may be interested in TechBash.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Ravi Ram on LinkedIn
 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhali/
 
 Sandi Metz' Rules For Developers
 https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers
 
 Llewellyn Falco refactoring
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdoSandi 
 
 Metz' Rules For Developers
 https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers
 
 Llewellyn Falco refactoring
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdo
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Ravi Ram: TechBash & Community Conferences - Episode 327

Jeff Fritz is an experienced developer, technical educator, and PM on the .NET team at Microsoft. He’s the producer of the .NET Conf online series of events, and regularly livestreams builds of websites and fun applications. You can follow Jeff for more .NET, .NET Core, and, Visual Studio content on Twitch and Twitter at @csharpfritz.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[2:40] Jeff’s background and the many roles he is involved in.
 
[6:17] Key announcements from .NET Conf.
 
[6:18] Starting with .NET Aspire, and getting it right with version 3.
 
[11:24] Version 3 covers the unattended deployment process.
 
[12:20] Benefits of the aspireify.net website.
 
[18:23] AI extensions for .NET.
 
[22:28] Recommendations for hardware for AI development.
 
[25:35] The static assets features.
 
[28:57] Using Github Copilot.
 
[30:13] Remembering that AI is just a text calculator.
 
[36:21] How people can catch up with the content from .NETConf.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 278 with Jeff Fritz
 
TagzApp
 
Fritz on the Web
 
 AI extensions for .NET
 
Unified AI Building Blocks for .NET using Microsoft.Extensions.AI
 
 Introducing Phi-3
 
Introducing Whisper
 
dotnet on YouTube
 
Microsoft Ignite
 
aspireify.NET
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Jeff Fritz: .NET 9 and Beyond - Episode 328

Sam Basu is a technologist, author, speaker, Microsoft MVP, and gadget-lover and is the Developer Advocacy Manager for Progress Software. With a long developer background, he now spends much of his time advocating modern development platforms & tools on Microsoft/Telerik technology stacks. His spare time calls for travel, fast cars, cricket, and culinary adventures. You can find him as @samidip on the internet.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[3:09] Sam shares his career journey and more about his background as a developer.
 
[5:18] Meeting the users where they are and the importance of adaptability.
 
[8:07] What kinds of use cases are available today for developers to use AI when it comes to UI?
 
[9:15] The two-pronged approach to UI and UX.
 
[13:33] Challenges and opportunities in AI integration.
 
[16:21] Future of the user interface.
 
[21:43] The AI models are exceptionally smart in understanding natural language.
 
[25:41] How GitHub Copilot can help developers.
 
[26:48] The limitations of GitHub Copilot.
 
[30:46] The gap in training for developers for Copilot.
 
[33:06] Use cases on Smart AI.
 
[36:14] The importance of responsible AI development.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Sam on X
 
Sam Basu
 
 Sam Basu Microsoft
 
Smart UI Powered by AI
 
ASP.NET Core
 
Smart AI Components
 
Sakura AI
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Sam Basu: Using AI for the User Interface - Episode 329

Aaron is a Developer Advocate at Microsoft. Having spent 15 years doing web development, he’s seen it all, from browser wars to the rise of AJAX and the fall of 20 JavaScript frameworks (and that was just yesterday!). Always tinkering with something new, he explores crazy ideas like writing your own implementation of numbers in .NET, creating IoC in JavaScript, or implementing tic-tac-toe using git commits. When not sitting at a computer, he can be found spending time with his wife and kids.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:38] Aaron shares his career journey, including his time in consulting and technical sales.
 
[6:48] The importance of understanding both technical and business aspects of software development.
 
[7:36] .NET Aspire and the community toolkit.
 
[15:21] Having a centralized place for discovering and contributing integrations.
 
[17:02] Running Ollama.
 
[21:12] Diving in more to the integration.
 
[24:27] Deployment options for .NET Aspire applications, including Azure Container Apps and Kubernetes.
 
[29:08] Testing and Acceptance with .NET Aspire.
 
[35:02] The process of attaching debuggers to applications and the challenges of debugging distributed applications.
 
[41:23] The community toolkit provides clear guidelines and contributing guides to help developers get involved.
 
[43:42] How people can get more involved and contribute.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
GitHub Community Toolkit
 
Aaron Powell
 
Aaron Powell Website
 
Aaron Powell Microsoft
 
Aaron on X 
 
Aaron on Mastodon Social
 
Aaron on Twitch
 
Aaron on LinkedIn
 
Aaron on Bluesky
 

 

 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Aaron Powell: .NET Aspire Community Toolkit - Episode 330

Brady Gaster is a Principal Program Manager on the .NET and Visual Studio team at Microsoft where he works on Orleans, SignalR, microservices, APIs, and integration with Azure service teams in hopes of making it exciting for developers who work on .NET apps to party in the cloud!
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[6:27] Collaboration with Azure Developer CLI.
 
[8:08] The challenges of integrating ASP.NET Core with existing deployment methods like App Service.
 
[11:45] The main questions they heard at the panel.
 
[13:53] Deploying your dashboard to Azure Container apps.
 
[24:31] Aspire builds on .NET and everything you can do with .NET, you can keep doing.
 
[27:03] Tips for developing against Aspire resources.
 
[27:50] The future focuses on security.
 
[30:02] Optimizing your development environment around DevOps.
 
[34:28] How much is Kubernetes an actual dependency, or can normal .NET applications just use App Service and not be tied to Kubernetes?
 
[39:37] Brady’s thoughts on the benefits of containers and the potential for easier alternatives in the future.
 
[44:06] AI doing a better job of suggesting the right code.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 “Building new (and retrofitting old) apps with .NET Aspire to streamline your development process”
 
 Ep 295 with Brady Gaster
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Brady Gaster: Upgrading .NET apps - Episode 331

James Montemagno is a Principal Lead Program Manager for the Developer Community at Microsoft. He has been a .NET developer since 2005, working in a wide range of industries including game development, printer software, and web services. Prior to becoming a Principal Program Manager, James was a professional mobile developer and has been crafting apps since 2011 with Xamarin. In his spare time, he is most likely cycling around Seattle or guzzling gallons of coffee at a local coffee shop. He co-hosts the weekly development podcast Merge Conflict mergeconflict.fm.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[:36] Jeffrey introduces the concept of .NET Aspire and highlights its integration with Azure DevOps and .NET ecosystem tools.
 
[2:51] The evolution of .NET mobile and desktop development since 2005.
 
[4:45] An overview of .NET Aspire and its focus on simplifying app development and infrastructure orchestration.
 
[11:45] How .NET Aspire supports both local development and cloud deployment.
 
[16:24] Integrating DevOps automation for Azure deployments using bicep templates and Azure Developer CLI (azd).
 
[25:30] Generating infrastructure manifests and deploying them with Azure Developer CLI.
 
[32:51] Configuring Azure resources like Redis Cache for development and deployment scenarios.
 
[35:11] Simplifying cloud deployment for developers using Azure Container Apps.
 
[39:37] Polyglot support in .NET Aspire projects, allowing integration with Python, JavaScript, and more.
 
[44:50] Plans to integrate development tunnels to streamline mobile app testing.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 62 with James Montemagno
 
James Montemagno
 
James on YouTube
 
James Montemagno GitHub
 
James on DevOps
 
James on X
 
 .NET Aspire Manifest plus + azd + Bicep == Mind Blown
 
Aspire Dashboard
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

James Montemagno: .NET Aspire with Azd - Episode 332

Ryan is an Advocate at Redgate focusing on PostgreSQL. Ryan has been working as a PostgreSQL advocate, developer, DBA, and product manager for over 20 years, primarily working with time-series data on PostgreSQL and the Microsoft Data Platform.
 
 
 
Ryan is a long-time DBA, starting with MySQL and Postgres in the late ’90s. He spent more than 15 years working with SQL Server before returning to PostgreSQL full-time in 2018. He’s at the top of his game when learning something new about the data platform or teaching others about the technology he loves.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:10] What made Ryan a database guy?
 
[6:11] CodeMash.
 
[6:58] Discovering the potential of SQL Server.
 
[12:02] The state of the database in 2025 and the things generalist developers should know.
 
[15:27] The challenge of interfacing between database types.
 
[19:57] Is Microsoft Fabric the future?
 
[22:44] Postgres for .NET developers.
 
[24:46] Nuances of migrating from SQL Server to Postgres.
 
[26:01] Postgres resources for data professionals.
 
[35:29] Postgres and its innovative edge.
 
[38:30] What is a vector database?
 
[39:45] The power of Postgres indexing.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
 Ep 245 with Ryan Booz
 
Figuring Out Fabric
 
SQLGene Training
 
 Introduction to PostgreSQL for the data professional. Kindle Edition
 
Postgres Playground
 
pgEdge
 
 “Name Collision of the Year”
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Ryan Booz: The State of the Database in 2025 - Episode 333

Scott Ambler helps people and teams adopt new ways of working (WoW) and evolve their ways of thinking (WoT), particularly around data warehousing and data quality. He is the creator of the Agile Modeling (AM) (AgileModeling.com) method and Agile Data (AD) (AgileData.org) methods. With Mark Lines, he co-created PMI’s Disciplined Agile (DA) toolkit. As a conference keynote speaker, he speaks about continuous data warehousing (DW)/business intelligence (BI), how to address enterprise data debt, how to succeed at corporate AI, and agile architecture. He has also (co-)authored several books, including Choose Your WoW!, An Executive’s Guide to Disciplined Agile, Refactoring Databases, and Agile Modeling. For a full list of his books, visit Scottambler.com/my-books/.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[4:29] Scott talks about his career journey.
 
[6:53] Scott’s early involvement in Agile.
 
[8:34] Needing to up our game in the Agile space.
 
[8:55] Agile2025 Conference this summer in Denver, CO.
 
[11:20] Challenges and evolution within the Agile community.
 
[20:01] Are we going to have a new Agile gold rush?
 
[21:47] Keeping an eye out for inappropriate processes.
 
[25:38] How we can do better.
 
[28:17] The Agile Manifesto.
 
[35:03] Importance of database refactoring and continuous data operations.
 
[36:46] What best practices does Scott recommend?
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
Scott Ambler
 
Scott Ambler LinkedIn
 
The Future of Agile Isn't Shit
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Scott Ambler: The State of Agile - Episode 334

Kent Beck is an original signer of the Agile Manifesto, author of the Extreme Programming book series, rediscoverer of Test-Driven Development, and an inspiring Keynote Speaker. I read his TDD book 20 years ago.
 
 
 
Topics of Discussion:
 
[3:46] What led Kent to extreme programming?
 
[7:52] What critical practices have stood the test of time?
 
[10:58] The role of software design in Agile Development.
 
[13:11] The inspiration behind Tidy First?
 
[16:16] Why software design is both a critical skill and an exercise in human relationships.
 
[22:05] What is “normalizing symmetry”?
 
[25:04] Empirical design.
 
[28:09] Design changes tend to be reversible.
 
[30:41] Experimentation with the GPT phase of AI on publications.
 
[35:13] Advice for young developers and programmers.
 
 
 
Mentioned in this Episode:
 
Clear Measure Way
 
Architect Forum
 
Software Engineer Forum
 
Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net.
 
Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)
 
 .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!
 
 Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!
 
KentBeck.com
 
Tidy First?
 
 Test-Driven Development
 
 Extreme Programming Explained
 
 Implementation Patterns
 
 
 
Want to Learn More?
 
Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Kent Beck: Tidy First - Episode 314

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