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The New York Times

“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech. 

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hard Fork

On Friday, President Trump ordered federal agencies to stop using Anthropic’s A.I. systems and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth designated the company a “supply chain risk.” Then, just a few hours later, the OpenAI chief executive, Sam Altman, announced that his company reached an agreement with the Pentagon. The deal ensures its technology won’t be used for the same two safety concerns Anthropic raised: domestic mass surveillance or autonomous weapons. So what is going on? Is this a political vendetta between the Pentagon and Anthropic? Or are there substantive differences between the agreement Anthropic was offered and the one OpenAI signed? We cut through the confusion.

Additional Reading:

 OpenAI Reaches A.I. Agreement With Defense Dept. After Anthropic Clash
 Trump Orders Government to Stop Using Anthropic After Pentagon Standoff

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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At the Pentagon, OpenAI is In and Anthropic Is Out

This week, the economist Anton Korinek joins to break down how artificial intelligence is driving volatility in the job and stock markets. Then, the battle between the Pentagon and Anthropic is getting even more tense. Anthropic now has until 5:01 p.m. Eastern time on Friday to accept the military’s demands over the terms of a contract, or the Trump administration will retaliate by invoking the Defense Production Act and designating the company a “supply chain risk.” We discuss this change, as well as two other updates on OpenClaw and Alpha Schools.

Guest:

 Anton Korinek • , economist studying the impact of A.I., at the University of Virginia.

Additional Reading:

 Pentagon Gives A.I. Company an Ultimatum
 Summer Yue’s OpenClaw post
 ‘Students Are Being Treated Like Guinea Pigs’: Inside an AI-Powered Private School
 Parents Fell in Love With Alpha School’s Promise. Then They Wanted Out
 The 2028 Global Intelligence Crisis
 When Does Automating Research Produce Explosive Growth?

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Is A.I. Eating the Labor Market? + The Latest on the Pentagon, OpenClaw and Alpha School

This week, Anthropic is refusing to let the government use the company’s technology for autonomous weapons and domestic surveillance. In response, the Pentagon is threatening to cut business ties and declare Anthropic a “supply chain risk.” Who will blink first? Then, Scott Shambaugh joins us to tell the strange tale of the autonomous A.I. agent that wrote a hit piece about him. And finally, the Hot Mess Express returns to the station.

 

Guest:

 • Scott Shambaugh, engineer and writer of “
An A.I. Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me • ”
 

 

Additional Reading:

 Defense Department and Anthropic Square Off in Dispute Over A.I. Safety
 Ring Cancels Its Partnership With Flock Safety After Surveillance Backlash
 Meta Plans to Add Facial Recognition Technology to Its Smart Glasses
 Japan’s Largest Toilet Maker Is Undervalued A.I. Play, Says Activist Investor
 ‘It Is 35 Degrees’: Outrage as Aussie Uber Driver Charges $5 to Turn on Air Conditioning Unit During Heatwave
 Meta Patented an A.I. That Lets You Keep Posting From Beyond the Grave
 I Tried RentAHuman, Where A.I. Agents Hired Me to Hype Their A.I. Start-Ups

 We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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The Pentagon vs. Anthropic + An A.I. Agent Slandered Me + Hot Mess Express

This week, we discuss Wall Street’s software-stock sell-off and a viral essay on X about the potential for widespread job displacement from A.I. Then, the New York Times reporter Alexandra Alter walks us through the process that a growing number of writers are adopting to churn out romance novels with help from A.I. chatbots. Finally, we each share one bit of good tech-related news — a new way to make playlists on Spotify and progress toward decoding whale sounds.

 

Guest:

Alexandra Alter, • a New York Times reporter covering books and publishing.

 

Additional Reading:

The Dark Side of A.I. Weighs on Tech StocksMatt Shumer’s essay “Something Big Is Happening”The New Fabio Is ClaudeHow a New A.I. Tool Fixed My Single Biggest Problem With SpotifyHow A.I. Trained on Birds Is Surfacing Underwater Mysteries
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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‘Something Big Is Happening’ + A.I. Rocks the Romance Novel Industry + One Good Thing

This week, the A.I. initial-public-offering race is heating up! We break down SpaceX’s acquisition of xAI, as well as OpenAI and Nvidia’s messy situationship. Then, it’s time for show and tell. We got our hands on the latest experimental A.I. prototype from Google called Project Genie, and we discuss our experience using it to generate and navigate video-game-like environments. Finally, we’re joined by Moltbook’s founder, Matt Schlicht, to discuss his new social media platform for A.I. agents, and how he’s planning to deal with security risks and spam on the site.

 

Guest:

 • Matt Schlicht, creator of 
Moltbook
 

Additional Reading: 

Elon Musk Merges SpaceX With His A.I. Start-Up xAIThe $100 Billion Megadeal Between OpenAI and Nvidia Is on IceProject Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worldsAn A.I. Pioneer Warns the Tech ‘Herd’ Is Marching Into a Dead EndMoltbook Mania Explained
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Elon Musk’s Mega-Merger + We Test Google’s Project Genie + What’s Next for Moltbook Creator

A Reddit-style web forum for A.I. agents has captured the attention of the tech world. According to the site, called Moltbook, more than 1.5 million agents have contributed to over 150,000 posts, making it the largest experiment to date of what happens when A.I. agents interact with each other. We discuss our favorite posts, how we’re thinking about the question of what is “real” on the site, and where we expect agents to go from here.

 

Additional Reading:

A Social Network for A.I. Bots Only. No Humans Allowed.Five Ways of Thinking About Moltbook
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Moltbook Mania Explained

This week we’re talking about the tech industry’s response to the killings by federal agents in Minneapolis and the federal government’s strategy to control the narrative on social media. Then we follow Casey through his trial of a new open-source A.I. assistant called Moltbot (formerly Clawdbot) and consider whether it is worth the security risk. And, finally, it’s time for a look at the rest of the week’s tech news with a round of HatGPT.

Additional Reading: 

False Posts and Altered Images Distort Views of Minnesota ShootingA Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex PrettiIt’s a War: Inside ICE’s Media MachineSome Amazon Employees Get ‘Project Dawn’ Calendar Invitation Discussing Upcoming Job CutsTikTok Data Center Outage Triggers Trust Crisis for New U.S. OwnersFormer FTX Crypto Executive Caroline Ellison Released From Federal CustodyAnthropic C.E.O.’s Grave Warning: A.I. Will “Test Us as a Species”Inside the White House Screening for Amazon’s ‘Melania’ DocApp for Quitting Porn Leaked Users’ Masturbation HabitsAlaska Student Arrested After Eating A.I.-Generated Art in ProtestSteak ’n Shake Adds $5 Million in Bitcoin Exposure, Deepening Bitcoin CommitmentSpaceX Weighs June I.P.O. Timed to Planetary Alignment and Elon Musk’s BirthdayLinkedIn Will Let You Show Off Your Vibe Coding Expertise
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tech Grapples With ICE + Casey Tries Clawdbot, a Risky New A.I. Assistant + HatGPT

Ads are coming to ChatGPT’s free and low-cost subscription tiers. We explain what they’ll look like, why OpenAI is taking this approach and whether the company can court advertising dollars without compromising quality and user trust. Then, Amanda Askell, Anthropic’s in-house philosopher in charge of shaping Claude’s personality, joins us to discuss the company’s newly released “Claude Constitution” and what it takes to teach a chatbot to be good.

As a bonus, if you’re interested in learning how to get started with Claude Code, you can check out our tutorial on YouTube.

Guest:

Amanda Askell • , a member of Anthropic’s technical staff

Additional Reading: 

OpenAI Starts Testing Ads in ChatGPTClaude’s Constitution

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Will ChatGPT Ads Change OpenAI? + Amanda Askell Explains Claude's New Constitution

This week, Jonathan Haidt, author of “The Anxious Generation,” returns to the show to discuss new research about how social media is harming teens and what it’s been like to become the face of a global movement against the platforms. Then, we asked what you were building with Claude Code, and you blew us away. We’ll share some of our favorite projects that you sent us. And finally, we’re joined by PJ Vogt, the host of “Search Engine,” to talk about our early adventures in the Forkiverse and what we’ve learned so far about running a social media network.

 

Guests:

Jonathan Haidt • , social psychologist and author of “The Anxious Generation"
PJ Vogt • , host of “
Search Engine • ”

 

Additional Reading: 

Mountains of Evidence Meta’s Internal ResearchAn NYT Event in LA - Trump: The First Year of His Second Term
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Jonathan Haidt Strikes Again + What You Vibecoded + An Update on the Forkiverse

Over the past year we’ve been working with the podcast “Search Engine” on a project that reimagines what the internet can be. What if instead of rage-baiting, a social platform incentivized friendly interaction and good faith discussion? Today we’re bringing “Hard Fork” listeners an episode we made with the “Search Engine” team called “The Fediverse Experiment” where we end up creating our own social media platform.

 

Guest:

 • PJ Vogt, host of the podcast “
Search Engine • .”

 

Additional Reading: 

The Dream of the Fediverse Is Alive on ThreadsWhat Is Mastodon and Why Are People Leaving Twitter for It?
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Can We Build a Better Social Network?

A Chinese firm called DeepSeek managed to upend global markets at the start of the week, to drag down chipmaker Nvidia — and to surge to No. 1 in the iPhone app store, all in basically no time at all.

Today, in this bonus episode, we talk through the news behind the freakout. How is a new A.I. model from one Chinese A.I. company making such a big splash? And what does it mean for the U.S. artificial intelligence industry?

 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Your Guide to the DeepSeek Freakout: an Emergency Pod

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