What This 330-Year-Old Company is Learning from Startups

The conventional wisdom is that traditional Japanese companies can't innovate.

And traditionally, that's been true. Hosoo, however, might be carrying on a 1200-year-old tradition, but they are hardly a conventional company.

Today we talk with Masataka Hosoo, who is the 12th-generation leader of Hosoo, one of Japan's most famous kimono silk makers. And while the company used to provide kimono fabrics to emperors and shogun, times have changed.

Masataka explains how he is changing with the times and working with not only fashion brands like Dior and Chanel, but companies like Panasonic to develop user interfaces that involve textiles rather than simple lights and buttons.

We also talk about a possible innovation blueprint that Japan's other small businesses can follow.

It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it.

Show Notes

How ancient weaving techniques are used in modern fashion When Japan hit peak-Kimono (it’s not when you think) Bringing kimono fashion to Paris How to retrain a 300-year old company to be innovative Why textiles should be seen as jewelry How traditional Japanese crafts can go global How other 300-year-old companies are reinventing themselves Why Kyoto might be Japan's next startup hub The 80/20 Rule for innovation in Japan

Links from the Founder

HOSOO global website This year's Hosoo Collection Hosoo's current design projects Videos of the fabric and the production process Kyoto's Go On project Panasonic's Kaden Lab

Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, straight talk from Japan’s most successful entrepreneurs. I’m Tim Romero and thanks for joining me.

Who says traditional Japanese companies can’t innovate? Well, okay, actually, a lot of people say that. I mean, yeah, to be honest, almost everyone says that, but the point is, those people are wrong.

Now, I have talked before about my work at Tepco and other large companies and the progress of they’re making their innovation programs, but today, we are going old school and I mean really old-school.

Masataka Hosoo is a 12th generation leader of Hosoo, the company that bears his family name. Now, Hosoo is one of Japan’s most famous kimono makers. They used to provide fabrics to emperors and Shogun, but times have changed, and today, Masataka explains how he is innovating and changing with the times.

Hosoo still makes kimono fabrics, of course, but they are also working with companies like Dior and Chanel to create new design ideas, and also with companies like Panasonic to change the way people interact with electronics.

It is a great conversation, not only about fabrics and fashion, and the unexpected way that they affect our lives, but one of a unique approach to innovation and of punk rock, but you know, Masataka tells that story much better than I can, so let’s get right to the interview.

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[Interview]

Tim: Cheers!

Masataka: Cheers.

Tim: So, I’m sitting here with Masataka Hosoo of Hosoo, one of the most innovative textile manufacturers in Japan. So, thanks for sitting down with me.

Masataka: Thank you.

Tim: Hosoo is a very different kind of company than the startups that usually come on the show. I mean, you were founded 330 years ago, but you are doing really new things. So, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who Hosoo is and what you are doing today?

Masataka: Okay, now, Hosoo is a family business and we had been making kimono more than 300 years in Kyoto. Of course, Kyoto is a 1000-year-old chapter and our textile called Nishijin textiles. Nishijin is a district’s old name in the center of Kyoto about 3 km², and this area had been making textile more than 1200 years, and before, our client is Imperial Kyoto, Shogun at the top of a samurai.

Tim: So, Nishijin-ori, I mean, you mentioned its 1200 years old. Is it the same technique today as it was 1200 years ago, or has it been improved along the way?

Masataka: I think so, yes. The textile improves so every year, every year, so sometimes, our special material 400 years ago, developed, we called Haku, it’s a Japanese paper put on the cold leaf, after that, cut. The material is developed 400 years ago. Now, still, we use it.

Tim: We will put up some links on the site to the videos you have on your site because it is really an amazing process to watch, but these days, you are also working with a Dior and Chanel, and a lot of modern designers.

Masataka: Our company, we still make kimono, and as a side, we make textile and we provide to robust luxury market such as Christian Dior, Chanel, Louis Vuitton. We provide textile, something for clothing. Sometimes, for upholstery.

Tim: Okay, so material you are using this for their interior design and fabrics, not the fabrics of the clothing.

Masataka: Yes, sometimes, we have a project with the fashion house. They would forge clothes for the Paris Collections. Now, we worked with three categories. One is for interior project, one is fashion project, and one is contemporary art project now.

Tim: All right. Well, listen, I want to dive into each of those a little bit later, but before we do that, let us back up a bit and talk about you.

Masataka: About me? Okay.

Tim: So, Hosoo has been a family business for 330 years. You are the 12th generation?

Masataka: Yes, I’m 12th, yes.

Them: That’s amazing? And, you took over the company about 10 years ago.

Masataka: Yes, 10 years ago.

Tim: All right, so let us step back to that time. So, you were saying at that time, Hosoo had been continuing its tradition of making kimonos, kimono fabrics, right?

Masataka: Yes.

Tim: That is definitely a shrinking market, so actually, in Japan, when did the kimono market peak?

Masataka: Actual peak is 70s or 80s.

Tim: 70s and 80s? Oh, I’m surprised it’s that late.

Masataka: Yeah. Of course, the kimono market, before, 100 or 200 years ago, there were people – everyone –

Tim: Had to have a kimono.

Masataka: The kimono, yes, and 150 years ago, Western countries came to Japan, but our textile, Nishijin, is very high-end, so before, general people never own Nishijin because that is only high-end.

Tim: But, the bubble era. So, during the bubble era, everyone could afford really high-end kimono.

Masataka: Yeah, turning point, I think, 150 years ago in Meiji Period, everything that changed.

Tim: Sure, sure, and the men changed very quickly, the women took a few more decades. It makes sense. So, yeah, the increasing wealth is what allowed so many people to buy it. After that, was it simply fashion changed?

Masataka: Yes. So, these 30 years, the kimono market is shrinking – we have 19% loss, become a 10%.

Tim: Wow.

Masataka: And, the Nishijin textile, same as well.

Tim: okay, so when you were growing up in this family as the 12th generation, that is a lot of expectations, and I’m sure a lot of pressure. Was this something you always wanted to do?

Masataka: When I was a child, I don’t like my family business because I feel very conservative. I want to do the more creative things, and after graduating university, I started my own company.

Tim: Ah, really? What did that company do?

Masataka: Before, I do the musicians.

Tim: Really?

Masataka: Yeah, really change my background.

Tim: I was a professional musician too.

Masataka: Oh, really?

Tim: First time I came to Japan, Japanese record company brought me to Japan.

Masataka: Oh, really?

Tim: Yeah. So, you did that for a couple of years?

Masataka: I make using, sometimes, I work with commercial things, but the strangers are not so good because sometimes, I get project, but sometimes the industry is a very – most of the big market, they have to – and

Tim: It’s hard to make money as a musician.

Masataka: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I tried to do the best job, but the business is very hard, and I started a fashion house, and it’s a concept with fashion, music, design.

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Tim: So, when you were moving away from the pure music and expanding it to kind of music and fashion house, was that on your own or was that as part of Hosoo?

Masataka: This is independent.

Tim: Completely independent?

Masataka: Yeah, I never think about joining my family business.

Tim: So, what changed your mind?

Masataka: 12 years ago. My father is CEO of my company and he participated in the exhibition in France, like a cusion.

Tim: Right, right. It was on like a chair.

Masataka: They fasten the chairs and a visit 2006.

Tim: Okay, so your father was the one that kind of took that first step?

Masataka: Yeah, and this is kind of like digital marketing. I think my family business is more conservative kimono, but I feel kimono expanded over the market.

Tim: So, it kind of changed your impression of your dad?

Masataka: Yeah, but I don’t know, because that is 2006. That is the marketing, never built a business model, just for testing.

Tim: But, still, for a 300 – well, then, it was a 320-year-old company, especially something as traditional – I mean, textiles are traditional and kimono textiles must be the most traditional market imaginable. So, this seems like a pretty big step.

Masataka: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I decided back in my family business because I found a family business, it is very creative.

Tim: So, after that first test marketing in 2006 in Paris, what was the next step?

Masataka: I went back to my family business and I started challenge to get the new market for overseas, but before, people never do that. Yeah, the first steps, I participated in many kinds of exhibitions Milano Salons and participated in exhibitions in Frankfurt, and sometimes, in Paris, and I bring to the cushion with our textile.