with @jessepollak @NoahCitron @rhhackett

Welcome to web3 with a16z, a show about building the next era of the internet by the team at a16z crypto, that includes me, host Robert Hackett.

Today’s episode covers the bustling area of “layer 2” rollups, a technology for scaling “layer 1” blockchains such as Ethereum. Joining us is Jesse Pollak, who previously led engineering for Coinbase’s retail side and who now is the company’s head of protocols where he founded and leads the popular layer 2 rollup Base.

We’re also joined by Noah Citron, an engineer at a16z crypto who works on many open source projects and protocols, and who closely tracks developments in this area.

Our conversation digs into the shifting history and future of Ethereum, the arrival of upgrades like EIP-4844, experiments in futarchy, and the difference between leading — and innovating — inside companies versus within decentralized communities. We also discuss the challenges of winning developer mindshare, how to refine business metrics and measures, understanding the tangled interactions between rollups and bridges, and whether you should ever hyphenate the word “onchain.”

Resources for references in this episode:

jessepollak.com • — Jesse Pollak's personal website • " A rollup-centric Ethereum roadmap • " by Vitalik Buterin (Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians, October 2020) • " The Coinbase Secret Master Plan • " by Brian Armstrong (Coinbase, September 2016) • " Proposed milestones for rollups taking off training wheels • " by VItalik Buterin (Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians, November 2022) L2Beat • — dashboard of the state of the layer 2s DefiLlama • — dashboard of the state of DeFi • Relevant Dune dashboards relating to layer 2s Ethereum blobsEthereum blob fee marketDEX cross-chain metricsFarcasters users transactions by chain • " How rollups *actually* work • " by Kelvin Fichter (ETHGlobal Scaling Ethereum Summit, March 2023) • " Rollups are L1s (& L2s) a.k.a. how rollups *actually actually actually* work • " by Jon Charbonneau (Mirror.xyz, May 2023) • " Rollups, Rigor, and Reality • " by Kevlin Fichter (kelvinfichter.com) • " Futarchy: Vote Values, But Bet Beliefs • " by Robin Hanson (George Mason University, August 2000) • " Ethereum Rollup Improvement Proposals (RIP) • " (Github) Ethereum EIP-4844 • (Github, March 2023)

As a reminder none of the following should be taken as tax, business, legal, or investment advice. See a16zcrypto.com/disclosures for more important information, including a link to a list of our investments.