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New York Times Opinion

The first draft of our future. Mapping the new world order through interviews and conversations. Every Thursday, from New York Times Opinion.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Matter of Opinion

The idea that white people — and white men in particular — face discrimination has become something of an obsession on the American right.

It’s a view that my guest this week shares. Jeremy Carl was nominated to a State Department post by the Trump administration, which sparked a lot of controversy. Carl is the author of “The Unprotected Class,” in which he makes the case that white Americans are in danger of becoming “second-class citizens.” 

I wanted to know what he thinks constitutes anti-white discrimination and whether focusing on it inevitably leads to white nationalism. After we taped this interview, Carl withdrew his nomination, acknowledging that he lacked enough support to be confirmed.

 • 0:00 - Intro

 • 01:59 - Jeremy Carl’s trajectory and State Department Nomination

 • 05:24 - The Civil Rights Act and rise of anti-white Discrimination

 • 12:20 - The impact of immigration on white Americans

 • 24:53 - The "radicalization" of D.E.I.

 • 37:37 - Carl’s provocative language and controversial tweets

 • 51:06 - “White culture” vs. “civic nationalism”

 • 01:01:00 - The fours pillars of “Americanness”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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White Identity Is Galvanizing the Right

Can the Democrats finally seize on President Trump’s increasing unpopularity and end their slump? It seems to me as though 2026 is providing them ample opportunity. But I wanted to know what they actually stand for. Have they learned anything about immigration? Are they ready for the new politics of artificial intelligence? To find out, I asked someone I consider a true man of the left, Chris Hayes, the host of “All In With Chris Hayes” on MS NOW.

 • 00:00 Intro

 • 02:09 - Democrats: The state of play in 2026

 • 06:46 - How Israel fractures the Democrats

 • 09:19 - Immigration reform beyond the “old consensus”

 • 19:46 - Models for Democratic leadership: Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, Rafael Warnock, and Jon Ossoff

 • 27:22 - 2028: Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsom and “the Hillary Clinton problem” 

 • 30:41 - The politics of attention

 • 36:19 - The challenges of achieving a Leftist society

 • 45:37 - A Leftist case against A.I.

 • 1:04:23 - Will A.I. define the 2028 election?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times With Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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The Democrats Could Still Screw This Up

I don’t think a war with Iran is what Trump — or his voters — had in mind when he campaigned on “America first.” My guest this week is Curt Mills, the executive director of The American Conservative, a magazine that champions foreign policy restraint. Mills thinks the war with Iran is a major betrayal of the voters who put Trump in the White House and has the potential to shatter Trump’s domestic coalition. 

 • 01:27 - Tracking the Trump administration’s foreign policy shifts and dynamics

 • 08:50 - The different strands of right-wing foreign policy

 • 15:00 - Is the anti-war movement real?: Policy, polling and public opinion 

 • 27:49 - Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Middle East’s influence on U.S. foreign policy

 • 40:17 - Why can’t Trump say no to Israel?

 • 46:20 - How does the fallout in Iran impact Trump’s potential 2028 successors and insurgents?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Does the Iran War Put America First?

We’re going back to the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. That is, if Artemis II can get off the ground. I sat down with Jared Isaacman, the billionaire leading NASA, to hear his perspective on everything from extraterrestrial life to the timeline for sending humans to Mars. 

This interview was recorded before NASA announced the delay of Artemis II’s launch.

 • 01:59 - Where are we?

 • 04:00 - From entrepreneur to astronaut

 • 09:04 - The “lunar futuristic junkyard”

 • 15:06 - NASA’s budget

 • 22:43 - Beyond NASA: Blue Origin, SpaceX and private industry

 • 27:26 - The orbital economy

 • 37:21 - How do we get to Mars?

 • 43:31 - “Do you think there's life out there?”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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The New Space Race

The next global leader is waiting in the wings — and no, I don’t mean China. India is the major power with the fastest-growing economy and the world’s largest population, and on the heels of trade deals with the United States and the European Union, it’s poised to become even more influential. I wanted to speak with Amitav Acharya, a prominent international relations scholar, about whether a new Indian century is about to be born.

 • 01:49 - India vs. China: The race to development
 • 05:26 - “The mother of all trade deals”
 • 11:02 - India's “multi-aligned” foreign policy
 • 17:46 - What is India’s grand strategy?
 • 24:08 - The diaspora’s cultural and civilizational influence
 • 41:50 - India in 2060

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Welcome to the Indian Century

A.I. is evolving fast, and humanity is falling behind. Dario Amodei, the chief executive of Anthropic, has warned about the potential benefits — and real dangers — linked to the speed of that progress. As one of the lords of this technology, is he on the side of the human race?

 • 01:37 - The promise and optimism of A.I.
 • 12:59 - White collar "bloodbaths"
 • 25:09 - Robotics and physical labor
 • 30:16 - The first “dangerous” scenario
 • 42:22 - What if it goes rogue?
 • 48:01 - Claude’s constitution

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Anthropic's Chief on A.I.: ‘We Don’t Know if the Models Are Conscious’

Nearly four years after Roe v. Wade was overturned, where is the pro-life movement setting its sights? That’s what I wanted to know from the activist Lila Rose. We spoke last month in front of a live audience at the Catholic University of America. We debated whether her cause was prepared for the fall of Roe and whether abortion still matters at all to the right. 

 • 01:55 - Live Action and undercover activism
 • 05:53 - Pro-Life 101 and S.L.E.D.
 • 13:36 - “The mistake of feminism”
 • 17:02 - Pro-family policy
 • 22:47 - The political landscape after Roe 
 • 42:35 - The pro-life movement beyond politics
 • 47:39 - The medical “zone of uncertainty”
 • 53:53 - Why should women be pro-life?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Why Ending Roe Wasn’t Enough for the Pro-Life Movement

I want to say something that few conservatives will admit right now: Donald Trump has lost the country. The coalition he assembled to defeat Kamala Harris has evaporated, and his aggressive agenda — never mind his legacy — won’t survive if Republicans can’t win the next election.

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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‘Trump Has Lost the Country’

If you want to understand how Robert F. Kennedy Jr. became the face of American public health, you have to go back to the Covid era. Medical authorities spoke with certainty: Trust the science. Don’t listen to skeptics. But a lot of people stopped trusting experts entirely when outsiders got some things right and the establishment got some things wrong. Now those outsiders are in charge, like my guest this week. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is the director of the National Institutes of Health. I wanted to know: Can an outsider restore trust in public health institutions without undermining trust even more?

 • 02:11 - How the “fringe epidemiologist” came to be
 • 08:18 - What went wrong while “crushing COVID-19”
 • 15:18 - “The responsibility of public health leaders”
 • 28:42 - Reforming public health and the NIH
 • 42:52 - Three areas of controversy plaguing public health
 • 1:00:52 - Success metrics

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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A Plan to Restore Trust in Science From a ‘Fringe Epidemiologist’

President Trump’s aggressive return to the White House has been disruptive in ways that will continue to reshape American — and global — governance and politics for decades. At a live event with the Library Foundation of Los Angeles, I joined my colleague Jamelle Bouie and our boss, the Opinion editor, Kathleen Kingsbury, to break down the first year of Trump 2.0. This conversation originally aired as an episode of “The Opinions.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
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Jamelle Bouie and I Debate Trump’s Failing Grade

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water.

 • 01:44 - “A life full of ease and beauty”
 • 05:30 - Rule by engineers
 • 11:00 - China’s Technological Mastery
 • 16:04 - Is autocracy driving innovation?
 • 25:00 - What are the real stakes of the competition?
 • 35:47 - How could China fail? 
 • 53:00 - Advice for America

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Does the Future Belong to China?

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