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Message Heard

An ex-Al Qaeda jihadi turned MI6 spy and a former monk turned filmmaker, have been embedded at the heart of conflicts in the Middle East. Together Aimen Dean and Thomas Small unpack the realities of war, fundamentalism and their global implications through first-hand experience.

CONFLICTED

As Saudi Arabia celebrates Founding Day, and as the murky underbelly of GCC geopolitics is on everyone's minds, we're re-releasing this classic Conflicted episode from early 2022.

Thomas & Aimen discuss:

 The deep history of Arabia

 The first foundations of Saudi Arabia

 The transition from British to American dominance in the Middle East

 Aimen’s family history within the British imperial system

 The 1920 Iraqi revolt 

 St John Philby (Abdullah Philby)

 The consolidation of Saudi Arabia under Ibn Saud

 Oil politics and the American-Saudi partnership

 Cold War spy-craft and intelligence networks in Saudi Arabia

 Espionage culture in the region

 The murder of Jamal Khashoggi

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

And YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ConflictedYoutube 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Rowan Bishop.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conflicted Revisited: Spying for Saudi

In this Conflicted Conversation, Thomas speaks to historian Yossef Rapoport about his new book Becoming Arab, and the revolutionary argument at its heart: that Arab identity in Egypt and the Levant was not the result of mass migration from Arabia, but was forged in the medieval countryside between the 11th and 15th centuries.

Rapoport explains:

 What the word ‘Arab’ meant in the early Islamic centuries

 Why most medieval villagers in Egypt, Syria, and Palestine did not initially think of themselves as Arabs

 Why migration models fail to explain Arabisation in the settled countryside

 How Islamisation and Islamic governance reshaped rural society

 The role of clan genealogies, taxation, and local leadership in creating Arab village identities

 The extraordinary 1245 Fayyum survey and what it reveals about rural Egypt

 The rise of popular Arab epics and the imagination of tribal ancestry

 Ibn Taymiyyah’s critique of manufactured tribalism in the 14th century

 How medieval Arabisation reshapes modern debates about identity, belonging, and land

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm 

Find Conflicted on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

And YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdlF1mY5t4 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

This episode was produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The People Who Became Arabs

With war clouds gathering once again over the Middle East, Aimen takes us behind the scenes of the indirect negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. He narrates the shifting Iranian position, the will-he-or-won’t-he calculus surrounding Donald Trump, and the vital strategic role played by Israel as the White House formulates a way forward. Is this brinkmanship, miscalculation, or the prelude to full-scale war?

They discuss:

 Iran’s negotiating position over the past 17–18 days

 The domestic factors informing Trump’s thinking

 How the IRGC is united around a rejectionist position

 How Israel may have helped provide the White House with the narrative it needs to get buy-in from U.S. citizens

 What really went on during Netanyahu’s recent visit

 The truth beyond Scott Bessent’s claims about causing a dollar crisis in Iran

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump, Netanyahu, and the Iran Endgame

In this Conflicted Conversation, Thomas speaks to U.S. Navy veteran Shawn VanDiver, founder of AfghanEvac, about the fate of Afghans who worked alongside American forces during the U.S. occupation, and how the Trump administration’s immigration restrictions are increasingly freezing them out.

Shawn explains:

 Who America’s Afghan allies were and the risks they took

 The complex tragedy of the National Guardsmen shooting in Washington D.C.

 The Special Immigrant Visa system and why it failed

 Trump’s first travel ban and the dismantling of refugee pathways

 The Doha Agreement and the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan

 The creation of AfghanEvac and cooperation with the U.S. government

 How Trump’s second term is closing the door on Afghan allies

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm 

Follow AfghanEvac:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfghanEvac

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afghan_evac

X: https://x.com/afghanevac

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@afghanevac

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/afghanevac

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/afghanevac.bsky.social

Truth Social: @AfghanEvac

Follow Shawn VanDiver:

X: https://x.com/shawnjvandiver

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shawnjvandiver

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnvandiver/

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/shawnjvandiver.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shawnjvandiver

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjvandiver

Find Conflicted on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

And YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdlF1mY5t4 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

This episode was produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How the US is Abandoning its Afghan Allies

After a tragic shooting in Washington, D.C., Thomas and Aimen trace the story back to Afghanistan and to the CIA-backed Zero Units that carried out some of the coalition’s most clandestine kill-or-capture missions.

They discuss:

 The November 2025 D.C. shooting and the alleged link to a former Zero Unit operative

 What the Zero Units were designed to do and why they were so controversial

 Afghanistan's geography of terrorism and counterterrorism

 The lifelong psychological damage caused by black ops

 How the Doha Agreement sidelined the US’s Afghan partners

 The halfway house vetting pipeline through German

 The problem of PTSD, monitoring, and support for both Afghan allies and U.S. veterans

 Whether America can fight future wars if local allies believe they’ll be left behind

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The CIA’s Zero Units in Afghanistan

In this Conflicted Conversation, Thomas speaks to veteran Singaporean diplomat Prof. Kishore Mahbubani about his thesis that the 21st century will be remembered as ‘the Asian Century’, and how the West can prepare peacefully and optimistically for China's return as the fulcrum of world history.

Drawing on his books Living the Asian Century, Has China Won?, and Can Asians Think?, Prof. Mahbubani explains:

 Why the 21st century will be the Asian century and why this need not require Western decline

 How colonialism shaped Asian self-perception, and the need for intellectual decolonisation

 How other countries can adopt Singapore’s model for success

 His meeting with Fidel Castro, Hafez al-Assad, and Yasser Arafat

 The hypocrisy of Western power and diplomacy

 How the United States keeps the UN weak on purpose

 Why Pres. Trump’s China realism has been a good thing

 The threat of war in Asia

Follow Prof. Mahbubani on X: https://x.com/mahbubani_k

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

This episode was produced and edited by Thomas Small.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why China’s Rise Cannot Be Stopped

In this semi-emergency episode, Aimen helps Thomas unpack the last eight months of escalating tension and threats between the US and Iran, and explains why it’s now unlikely the American ‘armada’ President Trump sent to the Gulf will be going to war with Iran anytime soon. 

Thomas and Aimen discuss:

 How the 12-Day War changed Iran

 Why Israel’s Doha strike jolted the Gulf and accelerated a ceasefire

 The Saudi–Pakistan defence pact and the Abraham Accords fallout

 How the region became more militarized and less diplomatically aligned

 Iran’s protest wave and the regime’s unspeakably brutal crackdown

 How Trump’s promises were empty from the start

 Why this may be Trump’s ‘Obama red line’ moment

 What this latest example of TACO signals to China

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

And YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ConflictedYoutube 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump vs Iran: The War That Wasn’t

In this episode, Thomas talks to distinguished BBC journalist Paul Kenyon about his new podcast series Two Nottingham Lads. Paul recalls highlights from his remarkable career, which has taken him from Iran to Libya to Ukraine to Stockport —as he watched, in real time, America lose its grip on the international order.

Paul talks about:

 How two Nottingham lads ended up on opposite sides of the Ukraine War

 The time he was detained by Iranian secret police

 Watching anti-Gaddafi tribesmen ride into Benghazi on horseback

 Accompanying unarmed Ukrainian guards as they marched uphill toward Russian troops

 Getting to know the notorious ISIS brides in the Midlands

 Being the only BBC journalist in Liverpool who witnessed the outbreak of the riots there in summer 2004

Listen to Two Nottingham Lads here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002ntm9 

Follow Paul on X: https://x.com/paulkenyonTV 

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paulkenyontv/

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

This episode was produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Paul Kenyon: 30 Years Under Fire as a BBC War Reporter

As jihadist violence in Mali escalates, Thomas and Aimen trace the history and present-day power of JNIM (‘Support Group for Islam and Muslims’), an Al Qaeda affiliate that has been laying siege to the capital Bamako. Will Mali’s secular state survive? Or is a jihadist takeover of the whole country now inevitable?

**Including BONUS MATERIAL for subscribers to the Conflicted Community!**

Thomas and Aimen discuss:

 The evolution of JNIM out of AQIM (‘Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb’)

 The jihadist ‘privateers’ who built the organisation

 Slavery and racial hierarchy in the Sahel

 Will JNIM’s leader Iyad ag-Ghali become the King of Mali?

 Fuel blockades, economic warfare, and attacks on the capital, Bamako

 Whether Mali can still exist as a sovereign state

Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠ 

Find us on X: ⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠

And Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠

And Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠

And YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@ConflictedYoutube⁠ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mali: When Jihadists Win

In this episode, Aaron Zelin returns to Conflicted to unpack the extraordinary collapse of the Syrian Democratic Forces’ position in northeast Syria over the past week — and what the fallout could mean for Syria’s fragile post-Assad order.

Aaron explains:

 Why the March 2025 framework agreement ultimately failed

 Why Sunni Arab tribes abandoned the SDF — and how Damascus prepared the ground

 How and why fighting erupted in Kurdish neighbourhoods of Aleppo

 The rapid fall of SDF-held areas in Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor, and Hasakah

 What happened at ISIS prisons and detention camps during the collapse

 Why claims of ‘Kurdish abandonment’ by the United States are misleading

 The PKK factor — and the risk of a new insurgency or terrorism campaign

 What Syria’s consolidation means for ISIS, regional stability, and the country’s future

Follow Aaron on X: https://x.com/azelin

This episode includes BONUS MATERIAL after the credits ONLY for subscribers to the Conflicted Community.

Join the Conflicted Community here: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm 

Find us on X: https://x.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

And Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

This episode was produced and edited by Thomas Small.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conflicted Revisited: Spying for Saudi

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